Changes to Thai Visa Requirements
17 February 2019
The theme of this blog has mostly to do with my experience of living in Thailand, from Phuket to Chiang Rai, Chiang Mai and now in the Isan region of the northeast. Although I have written posts on some of the bureaucratic aspects of Thailand as they related to my circumstances I have never put myself forward as a ‘top of the list’ expat information source. To keep up to date on changes in the range of various topics available would take more time than I have to spare.
Having said that there have been some important changes to long-term visa requirements made recently and I thought that as a service to my readers I would raise them as something you should take into consideration, if you haven’t heard about them elsewhere, which I am sure many of you have. I have tried to pull together the best of what I could find online but don’t reply on my post for the latest facts. Do your own research to find the best information for your circumstances. Also keep in mind that often each Immigration Office seems to have its own interpretation of the rules so be prepared to be flexible.
I will throw some photos in the post for no reason other than to break up endless words.
Background
In this post I will only deal with the Non-Immigrant Visa O/O-A for reason of marriage (which I will call a Marriage Visa – and yes I know this is not strictly correct) or retirement (which I will call a Retirement Visa because I can!) The financial qualifications for these category of visas is either based on monthly income or money held in a Thai a\bank or a combination of the two.
In simple terms the ‘marriage’ visa requires an income of 40,000 baht a month or 400,000 baht in a bank. The ‘retirement’ visa has a higher threshold being 65,000 baht a month income or 800,000 baht in the bank. There are other basic requirements such as how long deposits are to be in the bank and I will cover that aspect below thanks to ThaiVisa. Additional information online like this example HERE. Changes have been made to BOTH the income verification and the bank deposit requirements so either way you need to be informed.
The problems started to appear last year when the online expat community got word that Thai authorities were cracking down on the income side of these visa requirements and some embassies that previously provided uncorroborated statements of income, either a letter or in the case of the Australian embassy witnessing a statutory declaration, gave notice that as they weren’t able/willing to do the work to verify stated income, they were pulling out of providing support for expat citizens in this area. Notices such as those from the Australian and British embassies below started to make an appearance:
Can I request a certified copy of my Australian income statements to use as evidence of my income?
Thai authorities have advised that certified copies of Australian income statements do not meet their requirements as evidence of income. To renew or apply for a retirement visa, Thai Immigration have advised that you must demonstrate having funds or income in a Thai bank account; please contact Thai Immigration to clarify the visa requirements for Thailand; www.immigration.go.th or (02) 141 9889
or:
The decision was made by the British Embassy following a meeting with immigration in May in which they confirmed that they expect the embassy to verify all sources of income of British Nationals requesting an income letter. Consular officers are not verification experts and therefore cannot fulfil (sic) this requirement. We also cannot verify income from every income source in every country of the world. Thai Immigration is able to verify the income in a Thai bank account, therefore British Nationals should show evidence of minimum funds for their visa type by showing a Thai bank statement and/or bank book. This is not a new requirement and has always been an option for foreigners renewing retirement and marriage visas in Thailand.
The Thais were also looking at tightening up on the bank deposit criteria too, which at the time I didn’t see as widely discussed online. I guess most expats are relying on income rather than the deposit route as the basis for their visas. This is also covered below.
What are the new rules?
It’s not all bad news for people who have genuine financial resources as required by Thailand. For those who don’t and have been here using false income statements it’s not a good outcome. I have always used income for my ‘retirement’ visa and this required an annual trip to the embassy in Bangkok, one of my least favourite cities. The new rules allow us to prove income using bank statements and overseas pension verification so that annual trip to Bangkok is no longer required (for us Aussies anyway – I think most other embassies were happy to do it all by post as they confirmed income via a letter not a physically witnessed statutory declaration like the Australian embassy).
The bank deposit changes for retirement visa require you to maintain some of the money in the bank after the visa is extended, which for genuine people shouldn’t be a problem. I heard that some Visa Agents would make the required deposit for their client for the minimum period prior to the extension application, for a fee of course. Maybe these latest changes are to discourage this activity and from the Thai point of view why not?
The following words are not mine but from the ThaiVisa forum, which because of the number of expats using it is a great resource for technical aspects of life in Thailand as long as you don’t get caught up in the general rubbish topics posted by farang with nothing better to do. Thank you to Robert Cullearn (Facebook HERE) for posting it, which is how I found it. The original ThaiVisa post is HERE in in case you wanted to follow any subsequent comments.
After a lengthy meeting with senior Immigration officials from Regional 4 district, regarding clarifications of the amendments to Order 138/2557 and the new Order 35/2562, I can confirm the following;
2.18 Marriage extensions.
Funds deposited in a Thai bank.
400K deposited in a Thai bank for 2 months prior to the date of application.
Passbook or bank statement + bank letter as proof.
After the extension is granted you can withdraw part or all funds.
Income method.
1). A minimum income of 40K per month deposited in a Thai bank from overseas for the previous 12 month period. Local passbooks or statements may not confirm overseas payments.
You can request statements (at your local bank branch) for detailed statements from their HQ, itemising foreign transactions as Bahtnet or Foreign TT deposits. Takes approx 5 days to process. + Bank letter.
According to TI, all bank HQ’s are already aware of Immigrations requirements for detailed statements showing overseas transfers, which your local branch may not be able to confirm or supply.
2. A certified letter of income from your Embassy
2.22 Retirement extensions.
Funds deposited in a Thai bank.
For the very first application, must prove 800K deposited in a Thai bank for 2 months prior to the date of application, then 3 months after being granted permission.
You can then withdraw up to 400K, but must leave a remaining balance of 400K throughout the year.
For subsequent applications, must prove 800K deposited in a Thai bank for 3 months prior to the date of application, then 3 months after being granted permission.
You can then withdraw up to 400K, but must leave a remaining balance of 400K throughout the year.
Income method.
1). A minimum income of 65K per month deposited in a Thai bank from overseas for the previous 12 month period. Local passbooks or statements may not confirm overseas payments. You can request statements (at your local bank branch) for detailed statements from their HQ, itemising foreign transactions as Bahtnet or Foreign TT deposits. Takes approx 5 days to process. + Bank letter.
According to TI, all bank HQ’s are already aware of Immigrations requirements for detailed statements showing overseas transfers, which your local branch may not be able to confirm or supply.
2). A certified letter of income from your Embassy.
Combo method.
Funds and income totalling a minimum of 800,000 per annum.
There is no minimum balance of funds required.
Same seasoning conditions apply as for funds in the bank method. (First application 2 months prior, then 3 months after. Subsequent applications 3 months prior, then 3 months after.)
The important factor for the combo method is that funds deposited and income must not fall below the 800,000 requirement for the year.
Funds deposited of 300K + income of 50K per month.
Funds and income total 900K per annum.
After the seasoning period you can withdraw 100K.
Income of 50K x 12 = 600K + 200K funds = 800K.
Funds deposited of 500K + Income of 40K per month.
Funds and income total 980K per annum.
After the seasoning period you can withdraw 180K.
Income of 40K x 12 = 480K + 320K funds = 800K.
Funds deposited of 600K + income of 60K per month.
Funds and income total 1,320K per annum.
After the seasoning period you can withdraw 520K.
Income of 60K x 12 = 720K + 80K funds = 800K.
For this year only Immigration will use their discretion, depending on the application type, to determine if foreigners are working towards the requirements for 2020 and will give subsequent clarification of requirements expected in 2020.
Immigration will check at your next application date if you have complied with the seasoning periods for the previous year.
Failure to comply with seasoning periods, inadequate funds in the bank, inadequate incomes, or a combination thereof, may result in a refusal of your new extension application.
Hopefully, this may clear up some of the many misunderstanding and various interpretations abounding on the forum.
I came across this memorandum relating to visa income verification in the current year, which might be useful:
I am changing both to the bank deposit route this year (extension due in March) and also moving from retirement to marriage visa. In case you haven’t picked up on it the marriage doesn’t require you to maintain the deposit in the bank post extension (according to the above). I have permanent funds here to qualify for either but from this example it seems as if the retirement visa is going to get harder to obtain over time while the marriage is (currently) the easier option.
Permanent Residency
Continuing in my tradition of using other people’s words rather than do the hard work myself you might be interested in knowing about the option to apply for permanent residency. It’s not an easy path, and depending on the number of people applying each year, it may not be actually be available to you but I thought it was worth adding to this topic. An introduction to this visa option from this website HERE is below and here’s another, which says much the same thing HERE.
There are a lot of inquiries from foreigners who are constantly on a trip to the Land of Smiles as to how they can apply for Thai Permanent Resident status.
Obtaining status as a Permanent Resident (PR) in Thailand has many advantages. It allows you to live permanently in Thailand, with no requirement to apply for an extension of stay. You can also have your name on a house registration document, and you will be able to buy a condominium without making a bank transfer from abroad. Getting a work permit is also made easier once you have PR status.
In addition to this, you can be eligible to become a director of a Thai public company, as well as eventually apply to become a naturalized Thai citizen. You will also be able apply for an extension of stay and Permanent Resident status for your non-Thai family members.
Compulsory Medical Insurance
The other change that could well make an appearance, which I think will cause more problems for some than the income/deposit requirements, is all about compulsory private medical insurance for all long term visa holders. The following is extracted from this website HERE. As you know some expats can’t get insurance because of pre-existing conditions, the costs become exorbitant as we get older and in Thailand certainly medical insurance cuts out at 70! Unless there is some flexibility in the final conditions I believe this will cause all sorts of problems for us all.
Expats living in Thailand will have to compulsorily arrange health insurance, according to new proposals from the government.
Once it comes into effect, foreigners with the one-year Non-immigrant Visa “O-A” (Long Stay) will be required to have Thai insurance policies covering their entire stay in Thailand with minimum Bt40,000 out-patient medical bill coverage and minimum Bt400,000 in-patient medical bill coverage.
Those already having overseas insurance policies that meet the minimum requirement would be exempted from subscribing to Thai insurance policies. They will be able to apply for long-stay visas using their foreign insurance policies, he said.
Expatriates on the so-called ‘retirement visa’ already have to keep 800,000 baht in a separate bank account for at least three months prior to their annual visa renewal.
Many Thai insurance companies refuse to cover those over the age of 60 and for those over 75 there’ is even less chance of being able to find an insurer willing to take them on, however healthy they may be. Concerned expats fear they will either be unable to be covered or will not be able to afford whatever the insurers themselves decide is the actual premium.
Details and guidelines pertaining to the amendment were being jointly formulated by the Public Health Ministry, the Foreign Ministry, the Interior Ministry, the Immigration Bureau, the Office of Insurance Commission, the Thai General Insurance Association, and the Thai Life Assurance Association. At the next stage, it would be forwarded to the Cabinet for approval as a formal policy, he added.
The amended criterion is aimed at ensuring health protection for long-stay visa holders – mostly elderly foreigners – and also benefit the public and private hospitals in the country, local news outlet The Nation reports.
The criterion under the Immigration Act 1979 was approved by the Medical Hub Committee, Dr Kittisak Klapdee, adviser to the Minister of Public Health, said.
Kittisak was assigned by Public Health Minister Dr Piyasakol Sakolsatayadorn to join Tourism and Sport vice minister Ittipol Khunplome at the Medical Hub Committee’s second annual meeting, which approved in principle the amendment of the criteria for one-year long-stay visas.
Once again please take the information I have provided as a heads-up about the issues that I know of currently applying to this topic. I don’t have the knowledge to personally verify the correctness of this post. However, I think I have done enough to make you aware of the changes that are underway and those that might yet happen. You can’t just sit and relax expecting that your next visa extension is going to be the same as your last. Be active in keeping up with the news on this subject because your life in Thailand, or planned retirement here for those still at ‘home’, depends on it.
I will report back on my own visa extension when it happens next month. If it doesn’t come through then expect a change in location for this blog 🙂
Can I ask that if you are reading this and have helpful observations and advice to offer others would you please make the effort to leave a comment. I am sure they will be appreciated. The very simple question process you have to go through to leave a comment is to stop the masses of spam comments that get dumped on the site if I don’t ask genuine readers go through this process. My general spam blocker stops literally thousands of potential messages every year!
Tony, a very helpful if somewhat unsettling post. I just renewed my O-A visa last month using a pension income letter from the Canadian Embassy. It is too nad that some other embassies have decided to discontinue this service, for which a significant fee is collected. at least they should be able to verify income from their own govt pension sources. The medical insurance cover proposal is a more serious issue for reasons outlined in your post (prohibitive cost or age cutoffs). There are some postings that provide info on private Thai companies that provide the 40k/400k basic insurance cover for the O-X 5 year visa; some even for persons over 70. another option, if married to a Thai, may be to change from an O-A to an O (marriage) visa, as it is not clear whether the medical insurance requirement will also apply to that category, and as you note the financial requirements are less onerous.
Thanks for your comment Gerry. As with many government regulations of this type they should only apply to new applicants. In that way people know what the pre-existing requirements are and can plan to that or retire to Malaysia! It is very hard on those of us already committed to Thailand to have new conditions introduced that could affect our ability to remain here. I currently have private insurance but at some stage would have to opt out because of the cost. Under most (all?) policies it is the insurance companies that would opt out from me even if I had the money. What then? Do we all go ‘home’ at 70? Hopefully the ‘marriage’ visa will remain outside these more onerous requirements.
I could not agree with you more. I have been here 6 years now and am already ineligible for private cover (though the Thai companies listed under the 0-X visas do provide cover for about ฿80k/yr. I do have partial coverage through Allianz; it covers specific things like doctors fees & private hospital bed costs, but not specific amounts as proposed, so no idea if that will meet Thai immig requirements. like you, now considering switching over to an O visa (one of the many benefits of having a Thai wife – now if we could only get credit for the sin sot!)
I have just gone from retirement to marriage visa, apart from the paperwork and supporting information required it was pretty straightforward.
Nobby,
I have just started that process, would love to hear your experience and exactly what you had to do, everything I have found so far has different requirements and I have no idea what is right.
I would be interested in the same. I have spoken to others who have been through the process and although there is a bit more involved I don’t see any of the requirements as being a concern. My understanding is that the following is required but maybe Nobby can verify the correctness of this list:
Documents required at Thai Immigration.
1. Your passport, your wife’s passport, and copies
2. Husband (pink card if available)/Wife’s ID card
3. Husband (yellow book if available)/Wife’s household registration AKA tabian baan
4. Children’s birth certificates if available
5. Your legal marriage certificate
6. Bank book in Thailand showing funds of 400,000 Thai baht or confirmation of income of 40,000 Thai baht per month as per my blog post https://tonyinthailand.com/changes-to-thai-visa-requirements/
7. Letter from your Thai bank confirming your funds
8. Drawn location map of your residence
9. Proof of where you reside with your husband/wife, if you rent you need a copy of the ID card and the household registration of the owner
10. 2 photographs together inside your home
11. 2 photographs outside the home showing the house or condo number
You must provide two sets of photocopies for all the above and also the original documents to the Thai Immigration bureau for their perusal.
Tony
Hi Tony ,
This is what was required by Roi Et Immigration who are administered by Kon Kaen.
DOCUMENTS REQUIRED FOR A MARRIAGE VISA as @ ROI ET IMMIGRATION JAN 2019
1. Visa Extension Form (TM7)
2. Passport or Travel Documents
3. Non Immigration Visa
4. Marriage Certificate (If from abroad have to be certified by the Embassy or Consulate in Thailand) and Certificate of family, Certificate of Marriage.
5. Wife’s I.D. Card
6. House register of Thai wife.
7. Children’s Birth Certificate.
8. 400,000 Thai Baht in Bank Account seasoned for at least 2 months with Bank Book ( Letter from Thai Bank certified money in Thai account (Aliens name) OR
9. Income or pensions have to be certified by the Embassy or Consulate in Thailand to show income more than 40,000Baht/month.
10. Map to home.
11. Family Photo at real-time.
12. Photograph 4x6cm
13. Application Fee 1,900baht
2 sets of Documents required
Be prepared to spend a couple of hours with Immigration as there are other papers to be signed by you and your wife .
Also expect a visit to you home shortly after, ( they came to ours the following day) More paperwork has to be signed 3 witnesses were required we used the Headman and two family member ( To prove we lived there and were an item!!)
Hope this helps!
Regards Nobby
Much appreciated. All sounds pretty straightforward.
Cheers.
Hi Tony
Do those 2 copies need to be certified copies as per the retirement visa requirements?
Cheers Brian
Hi Brian. Where you say ‘those 2 copies’, which documents are you referring to? Two copies are required for everything but you are obviously referring to something specific.
We have been busy with visitors so my replies will be quickly until the next lot!
Hey Tony
With my recent retirement visa application with the Thai Embassy in Aus, I needed the originals plus two certified copies, e.g. police clearance, bank statements, medical certificate, flight booking, etc. 19 pages I had. The JP was pretty good about it really.
Good to hear Nobby. The joy of having the blog is that I can provide proof of just about anything as my life here with Gaun has been an open ‘book’ 🙂
Like all dealings with Thai bureaucracy if you do your research and provide what’s needed without fighting the system it usually works out pretty painlessly. At least that’s my plan 🙂
Hey Tony
Well summed up and 99.99% up to what I heard on the grapevine.
With regard to private health insurance, yes I have heard that it’s best to get it before your 60, that said, when I retired here 3 and a bit years ago at 55, tried to get health insurance to cover me, no problem, but the problem was with me, i.e. I wanted a pre-existing condition covered if I was going to part with the then quote 80,000 baht, so I declined to accept private health care cover from one provider because they wouldn’t cover my pre-existing condition, then the 2nd quote came in at 100,000 baht, again, wouldn’t cover my pre-existing condition,
Ok, so what was my pre-existing condition, well a year ago I had a heart attack, drove myself to the hospital and had a stent put in and have been as good as gold since, and as insurers didn’t want to touch me, they were not going to get my money, so I self insured, then one day as I was renewing my house and car insurance through AA a local broker here, I though, hey you know what, I will ask them as they skipped my mind the 1st and 2nd time I applied for private health insurance and bingo.
The person I was dealing with said there was a provider who would look at pre-existing conditions over 5 years old and if they agreed to cover my pre-existing condition there would be a premium added to the annual policy, long of the short I completed the application, then the provider asked for letters from the Cardiologist and as I kept a copy of each letter the Cardiologist would send to my GP, I sent them all in from 2008, then every 2 years thereafter, they accepted my application and said they can cover my pre-existing condition if I want it at an additional cost of $60AUS per month or about 1,380 baht on top of the normal policy which all up came to about 56,000 baht (total) so I was stocked.
he above said the insurers name for those interested is David Shield, my research found that they are an Israeli insurer and had only recently branched out into offering insurance to Xpats abroad, prior to this they would only offer it to their own citizens. Now there were no reviews that I could find about how good of a payer they are, that said, the private health insurance I am covered for is $1 mil USA and it’s only for inpatient i.e. emergency or scheduled procedure and covers me in 4 neighbouring countries as well as Thailand of course and up to 90 days emergency cover when travelling abroad.
Outpatient is cheap enough here so I only opted for inpatient. Now other might want to get outpatient as well but that would raise the annual premium no doubt.
They sent me a card David Shield (VISA) and a customer card with customer ID on it, both fit into your wallets as do your other cards so it’s convenient to have on you at all times.
Now if you are in an emergency, naturally they will want to know so they can approve the funds to the hospital via the David Shield VISA card, and an emergency is considered to be an over 24 hour stay in hospital or longer for them to pay it.
The above said, they also provide you with access to their website with your own password for you to access your policy and or read up on it when you need too.
I have not had private cover since I was in my early adulthood, i.e. 18-20 but then we paid a tax levy and were covered by Medicare so I just did as most do, use it and when I needed a procedure carried out rather than wait 12-24 months, paid for it and was done in 3 weeks time, $6,000 AUS out of pocket, but $1,000 claimed back in tax, so $5,000 wasn’t much to cry over considering I hadn’t paid for private cover for decades.
The broker I used is in Pattaya and all was done by email, he/she certainly worked for his/her commission and never complained once to all of my many many many questions, in fact I recently insured the wife and 4 kids with the same person but different insurer, ACS as the deal is if you sign up with them, you pay for 2 kids and 2 kids pay nothing, so for literally the same amount that I paid with David Shield for myself, I got the whole family covered with another provider and if you ask me are they any good, well how long is a piece of string, the thing is, we don’t want to know, but in the event of a claim can only hope they all come good, and brokers usually have a good idea who is a bad payer and who is a good payer, after all why would they recommend them.
So if anyone has a pre-existing condition over 5 years old and has been knocked back, I recommend giving David Shield a try through the broker or by yourself, the broker charged me nothing so why not let him/her do the running around, and if you want private cover for the family and have more than 2 kids, again, the broker will know who to recommend.
Office Pattaya
565/62 Moo 10, (next to Big C South Pattaya)
Nongprue
Banglamung
Chonburi 20150
T. +66(0)38 415795 # 13
I dealt with a person my the name of [email protected]
I hope this is helpful to anyone looking at private health insurance
A year ago should have read a decade ago, sorry gents
As always plenty of useful information in your comments Angelo. You are sort of a blog within a blog 🙂
I use AA Insurance brokers Pattaya for my house, contents and car insurance and always found them pretty efficient. I use Pacific Cross Thailand HERE for my medical and had no problems claiming for a hernia operation I had last year. The pre-existing is the big catch of course so it is interesting to read your/AA solution. I have a friend who will be interested to read your comment so I will pass it on. I will check with AA once my health insurance comes due (June) to see what they suggest as an alternative to Pacific. You never know.
Great to hear from you and see you are keeping an eye on happenings.
Best regards.
Tony
Hey Tony,
Another great article all be it not great news for most. Will be interesting how this all pans out…
It will Shaughan. The latest changes on income/bank deposit requirements won’t be a problem for genuine expats who were always telling Thais the truth and had the finances to back it up. It will obviously be of concern to those westerners who were under the minimums and providing false declarations. I do sympathise but this isn’t a Thai problem. They have a right to ensure the visa criteria they set is being met. No different to Australia.
Thanks Tony. Another informative blog, and the insurance part is something to be aware of.
Thanks for the post Tony, very insightful as usual.
Picking up from one of your previous articles; is the issue of taking up Thai residency.
I am certainly nowhere as informed as you on any of these matters, but a quick look at the ATO view, it would appear you would go from $ 18,200 tax free threshold plus 19% marginal rate after that, to a straight out 32% rate.
See this: https://www.nestegg.com.au/tax/11702-difference-between-resident-and-non-resident-for-tax-purposes-2. (I cannot put it in as a link.)
‘If a resident’s income is less than $18,200, taxes are not imposed. Surpassing that threshold means a marginal tax rate starting at 19 per cent for each $1 over $18,200.
Non-residents are automatically taxed a rate of 32.5 per cent for incomes less than or equal to $87,000’.
My rough calculation based on an annual income of $50,000:
Resident Non Resident
$50,000 $50,000
Tax free $18,200 marginal tax 19% tax 32.5%
$31,800 $6,042 $16,250
Net income $43,958 $33,750
Difference $10,208
or
THB 229,680.00 Per year, at the ever dwindling value of the Au$
I have not taken into account any Medicare Levy.
Nor am I any form of financial advisor, but I think it does speak for itself!
Thanks for the time and effort you put into your posts!
Please keep the info coming.
Cheers
Brian.
You are right with your assessment of the tax situation for citizens classified as non-residents of Australia. It is a discrimination against the people the government would most want as non-residents – us oldies with increasing demands on the social security system. I had a friend visit this week and he was telling me all the automatic benefits he got as an over 60 year old resident of Queensland summarised by the following:
• The Queensland Government offers concessions on services such as transport and motor vehicle registration, health, recreation and education.
• Concessions are also available on home energy supply.
We don’t get any of that but pay a HIGHER rate of taxation. What a aberration and disgrace.
If you haven’t found it already my post called ‘Australians Beware’ HERE covers the taxation points you raise. Read the comments too, which are almost as interesting as the article.
Between the taxation, the discrimination on getting the age pension and the ever dropping dollar/baht exchange rate that retirement caravan somewhere on the Australian north coast is looking more attractive!
Cheers Brian.
Hey Brian
Your 100% correct that Non-Residence of Australia pay 32.5% tax from every $ they earn from within Australia.
I retired here 3 and a bit years ago, that said, I still have clients who track me down through my email and mobile on roaming and I do take on some consultancy work every now and again as it’s money for jam so to speak, not that I go looking for it, that said I just paid $6,000 tax on about $20,000 income earned less about $2,000 in deductions for the consultancy work I did, now had I tried to retain my residency, it would be pretty much zero tax with the $18,200 threshold, but it is what it is and there are some benefits to Non Residents living abroad that you may not be aware of and I will touch on these below, that said, I am not a qualified accountant by no means, so always best to clarify anything with a qualified accountant as things do change, although I do this and try and keep abreast of things:
The benefits to Non Residents are as follows:
If you invest in the Australian stock market and purchased fully franked shares, there is no tax payable in the dividends and there is NO capital gains tax payable on any shares purchased and sold.
If you put money in the bank, you only pay 10% withholding tax on interest earned.
So as you can see there are some benefits, and yes I am aware the stock market is quite volatile, that said, if you purchase blue chip stocks, like the big 4 for example you can earn 6% tax free on your return, of course the value can drop, but if your not looking to sell, it’s a stable income, and shares do go up as well, and if you did sell when they were up, you wouldn’t pay any capital gains tax.
You do not pay a Medicare levy as Non Residents are not entitled to Medicare, that said, Non Residents have until there expiry date on their card, or 5 years whichever comes first.
If you hold property, well it’s 32.5c off the bat for every $ earned so to speak, and no 50% capital gains tax discount, so it’s full capital gains tax from the moment you departed the country, so one wonders what the point is holding onto property ?
So there is some food for thought, and there are ways to minimise income earned, now whether it’s legal or not is up to one to workout, for example, a pension can earn $4,472 per annum before their pension starts being reduced, so if one was to have money paid into a (friend/s) account (pensioner) that would reduce their tax bill by $1,452.40 per annum or 31,975 baht, now depending on how many pensioner friends you have back home that you can trust, you might save a enough for a rainy day, but I think enough said on that because I am sure you get my drift.
Anyways I hope the above might give some insight to those not knowing that there are ways not to pay tax legally and or reduce your tax if money is deposited into the bank as Non Residents, as for depositing money into a pensioner/s friends account to the value of $4,472, i.e. paying back old debts, well it’s all about shifting things around isn’t it, and like I said, it may not be legal, but how many companies shift money around and pay zero taxes and get away with it ?
Each to their own I say, been paying taxes for decades, and won’t even be able to get the pension because I am a Non Resident, i.e. unless I am prepared to return to Australia to serve a 2 year jail term as I call it and off load some $’s at least 5 years prior to that, which isn’t going to happen.
Again, always discuss with a qualified accountant before you do anything.
A thoughtful contribution as always Angelo. Thank you.
Dear Tony and expats.
I joined up with A I A health 6 months ago it cost me 7,794 aussie dollars.
I went to hospital for 6 days with bronchitis ,never had this in my life , but they claim it was a ongoing condition, so I got my medical records west Australian certified from my doctor in perth.
I gave them to the AIA REP ,it took two months to get back to me,IT READ ,we can not refund ,medical bills ( 700,000) as we suspect this was on going ,we will refund your joining fees less our expenses ,I received 2 months later115,000 no list of charges or expenses listed .THE REFUSED ME ANY REQUEST TO TALK THIS OVER SO ALL US OUT THERE BE VERY CAREFUL.
Thanks for that Jamie. Not good news for you. As always with insurance the test is when you need it. I certainly had no problems with Pacific Cross, not that I am specifically pushing them (this is a non-commercial blog) but at least I can pass on the name of an insurer who did pay up when required.
Well so much for retiring to a cheaper tropical paradise, sitting on the beach sipping mixed drinks and watching the sunset. In regards to the medical insurance issues, it seems that Thailand is bracing for the same event every other country in the world is facing, and that is populations are getting older rapidly. SE Asia is the fastest aging, and so this potential burden on their economy of older expatriates relocating to their country with a much older native population makes sense. Not that it’s fair, but every country is dealing with the billions, or in the case of the US, trillions of dollars in healthcare and social security costs it will extract. Private medical insurers are out to make money, so taking on the debt of older expatriates is not necessarily in their best interest. The actuaries will say you would not even have paid enough in premiums to compensate for expensive surgeries needed in the near future. However, I find it unconscionable that all insurance coverage would end at the somewhat early age of 70. Also, it sounds like Thai insurance can drop you at any time without any more justification than you cost too much to cover! Sounds like I need to make certain I have a versatile insurance plan in place if I move there that will not be subject to coverage ending prematurely. Yes, that is a price you pay in leaving your home country and losing out on the federal and state funded healthcare you paid into all those years, and where private insurers get government subsidies. I saw where the Sweds banded together in Thailand to get group coverage and got their home country to lend a hand to their expatriates. With so many Aussies in Thailand, seems like there could be a similar compromise with expats in Thailand. Really sad when you think the average expat probably gives more monetary support to their Thai partner than their country ever would. Just remember you didn’t just marry your partner, but her family, and you will be looked after better than in most medical facilities IMHO.
Part two; The devaluation of the AUD, USD, or any other currency to the Thai Baht. Well folks, welcome to the world of currency manipulation. Thailand has been on the US Treasury’s list for a while (along with China, Taiwan, Korea…), and it seems it will be in the future, but I bet, nothing will change. Thailand’s GDP is on the rise, and they don’t want to jinx anything, but the May elections could. With the rising Baht, they may have a harder time exporting goods, meaning they must lower the cost of goods from their country for exports. Unfortunately, this could mean even affecting the price of produce from the poor farming regions. I hope this isn’t the case, but for now, many foreign investors are betting on the Thai baht to continue to rise, meaning everybody else’s currency drops. Just some of my thoughts on the subjects.
Very insightful story as always Tony, and all other commentors,
Jim
It is becoming harder than before Jim. I can relate to the Thais tightening up on the financial side to weed out people who never really qualified, but the health insurance is a totally new challenge.
The points you make about the worldwide problems for health insurers and older people is totally true of course. Public systems everywhere struggle to cope even now and the bulk of us baby boomers hasn’t yet hit the system big-time.
We don’t get low cost medical here as locals do and have to pay our way (quite rightly) so on the face of it health insurance shouldn’t be an issue. Maybe some farang end up in a public hospital and can’t fund the costs and this is a concern? The general push to move those who can afford it out of public and into private medical facilities could be a driving force too. I do hope that the Thais take a realistic approach as to what is possible for older farang and don’t force us out of the country at a certain age just because of lazy legislation. Maybe insurers will offer packages that meet the minimum requirements with more flexible age criteria. We are a very expensive age group as you point out so even the basics won’t come cheap. I know there was a call for expressions of interest online a year back to put together a farang insurance scheme that provided basic cover but I think that didn’t get off the ground.
In a fair world the insurance requirement would only apply to new visa applicants, so that people had all the facts and could make a decision BEFORE deciding to retire here. For people like myself who have such a commitment to the country both financially and emotionally to have to pull out at some stage in the future would be devastating.
The strong Thai baht is certainly another factor in retirees looking at alternative destination countries. Mind you our Aussie dollar has been generally getting progressively weaker against just about everyone so we’re compounding the problem. We continue to stack up well against the Malaysian currency over the last few years if anyone reading is looking for a Thailand alternative. I am told they are pretty good with their visas too although I haven’t researched it. You could end up there Jim and pop over the border to visit us from time to time!
A day at a time Jim. No point getting worked up about something I can’t change.
Thanks. Tony.
Excellent articles
Thank you David.