Living with a Thai Woman
A real story of what can be…………
If like me you have spent any time on the many farang based forums and you happen to end up in the often depressing topic area entitled “Farang/Thai Relationships” then I hope my post will do something to add some reality and positive words to the subject.
Building in Thailand eBook
When my wife and I bought some land in Isaan, which is a region in the north east of Thailand, and then started to build our house I started to record the daily events of construction life. For twenty six weeks I wrote a weekly blog update about all the aspects of the build and included as much detail as possible for others who might be thinking of going down the same path. I was surprised by the number of readers I attracted as a result of writing on this subject, many of whom followed the entire build from beginning to end.
Based on this continued interest I thought I would revisit my original words and bring them all together under the one heading in the form of an eBook. Included in this process has been some extensive updating and expansion of many of the original posts and the addition of the many COMMENTS, which are designed to expand your knowledge and save you time or money or both!
Read more HERE and find out how to obtain the eBook.
I am loving your book – just on my second read at the moment, to make sure that I didn’t miss anything first time around (which actually it turns out I did!).
Just a note of thanks at this point ……. I am a fairly methodical sort of bloke, but there are many issues which your book highlights which I just wouldn’t have thought about – or if I had, I may well have assumed they were “standard” building practice [U-bends, drain positioning, barge-board alignment] – if it hadn’t been for your excellent descriptions!! I will probably still “miss” something – that’s the nature of building/design – but thanks to you, it shouldn’t be anything too mission-critical.
The income from my eBook pays for the upkeep of this blog, which is otherwise commercially free unlike so many others.
November 2018 – Update
I have extensively rewritten this, the most popular of my blog posts, to include more of my insights of living with a Thai woman now that I have been doing so for over five years. I have also changed most of the photos and generally refreshed the look of this story. For the many of you who have read this post before, this is practically a new version and can be reread on that basis.
I believe this post is essential reading for anyone starting a relationship with a Thai person. There are many blogs out there that focus on the challenges of bargirl relationships, but few bloggers have the ability to take a broader and more useful view of the special aspects involved in any farang/Thai relationship. Even for those of you who are already in a relationship, I challenge you not to nod your head in recognition of some of the things I cover in this post.
Introduction
I am not unrealistic about the crisis some people find themselves. Thai/western relationships can be good, bad or anything in between like ANY OTHER combination of nationalities. It just is that like all news situations people are more motivated to highlight the bad and dismiss the good. How many ‘good driving’ videos do you see on YouTube 🙂
My personal progression of relationship with a Thai lady looks like this. I met Gaun (my wife obviously) a few years ago in 2012 while she was working in a small Nan Harn resort and I was holidaying in Phuket. We decided to spend time together when I started to explore Thailand on my return for a seven month stay in mid-2013. I took early retirement aged 57 in late 2013 at a time we were living in Chiang Rai. We committed to the relationship in the form of a village marriage ceremony in March 2014, which I wrote about HERE, formally married in our hometown on Si Bun Ruang, which you can read about HERE and have been (very) happily living together ever since.
So what’s it like living with a Thai lady? By this I don’t mean to suggest that there’s anything weird or worryingly different in having a Thai partner over say an Australian, American or any other nationality. This is not a living with an alien story! What I do believe however is that each nationality has its own ‘flavour’ and it’s those differences between cultures that make a mixed partnership both especially interesting and rewarding but also in some cases especially challenging. My goal here is to explore some of the more obvious aspects that make a Thai relationship what it is – like it or not. The aspects I detail are very ingrained, certainly in my lady, and you either get frustrated and try to force change or do what I mostly do – relax (sabai, sabai) and let your relationship life flow around you.
And the final example on the left. Cheap to buy at garden centres and then take cuttings and you’ll never buy again.
Ground rules
Before I launch into this post I had better set some parameters. Firstly I don’t set myself up to be an expert on anything least of all farang/Thai relationships. However I have been successfully (well she SEEMS happy and I certainly am!) living with a Thai lady for over five years, which gives me a little credibility to share some aspects of what I have observed. I write mostly as if all relationships are expat male/Thai woman because the vast majority are that combination. I tend to use ‘her’ and ‘she’ as a result. I don’t think the points I make would be different if the mix was different. Whether a Thai male or female is involved their priorities will be largely guided by the headings I write about below.
I won’t bore you with specifics about my relationship so I will keep the comments pretty general. However, they are obviously based on my personal experiences, which may or may not be representative of a “normal” relationship (whatever that might look like) between a farang and Thai partner. The photos are more personal, so it’s a bit of a Gaun and Tony fest in that way, but I preferred to share these rather than come up with some generic pictures from the internet.
Finally my life with Gaun is also based on an acceptance of her background, which has strong roots to a farming family and community in a small village set in rural Isaan, a region in the northeast. Gaun is obviously not a HiSo (high society) mover and shaker, which I am sure involves a different set of characteristics, although I suspect there are some common themes running through all levels of society here – certainly in Isaan if not elsewhere
So let’s get started:
Are You Hungry?
Thailand as a nation is obsessed with food and in my mind that’s not a bad thing. If eating Thai isn’t on your list of things you enjoy about being in Thailand you are in the wrong place!
The most often asked question I will get from Gaun is “Are you hungry?” and this can happen at any time and sometimes at several times during the day. The subject of food is absolutely central to living here, not just as a way of maintaining energy, but almost as a religion. The ‘harvesting’ of food, its preparation and eating with others is a constant around which life revolves. Weddings, funerals, monk ordinations and any other social event has the sharing of food and drink in huge quantities as a statement of welcome and social standing. You will almost never see a Thai person eating alone. Food is to be enjoyed with friends, family or anyone else passing! I have seen solitary farang sitting in the corner of a cafe with only a book or iPad for company. This scenario rarely happens with Thai people who would prefer to invite the waitress to join them rather than eat alone 🙂
In my rural moo ban (village) location my wonderful Thai family (more on that aspect later) gather for a shared meal every evening. Whatever is cooked is placed on a wooden table and whoever is around sits down to take part. There’s no “well I cooked yesterday, so it’s your turn”, and no reconciliation of money spent takes place; it just seems to evolve organically and there’s always something available, with plenty of sticky rice of course the staple of Isaan meals.
Thais eat when they feel like it and to support this obsession food stalls are almost literally everywhere. If you have visited Thailand you will know that you are never more than 100 meters from a stall or shop serving food even in the most remote places 🙂 Even if there’s no fixed shop if you wait long enough a ‘foodmobile’ in the form of a saling (Isaan for a motorbike with sidecar) will pass you by.
Although the standard three meals a day are consumed the ability to snack is a national pastime with a couple of satay sticks here or a little bag of something else there. Where I live in Isaan and probably elsewhere, there’s no formal variation in the breakfast, lunch and dinner styles unlike in the west. Where we will have toast and jam, cereal or bacon and eggs for breakfast a Thai person will eat whatever is to hand. Breakfast is just as likely to be a hot spicy papaya salad as it is for lunch or dinner. Don’t expect your Thai partner to switch to your way of eating and be prepared to make your own breakfast if you want to retain some farang habits! More on this later.
Seeing ants doesn’t have you reaching for the insect spray but rather the cooking pot!
I hasten to add that the dish shown above was being consumed by the workers building our house (2014/15) and isn’t on my expanded menu since moving to Thailand. If it moves or grows most likely it will be eaten in some form. I am told the ants have a sour flavour in case you were wondering however ant eggs are very sweet 🙂
Ant eggs being harvested to be sold in the local market. A delicacy here. A small plate will sell for 100 baht.
Now this is more like it for my western tastes. Duck in a lychee red sauce.
Or something a bit more Isan.
I don’t have a large appetite here, maybe a combination of the fact that I don’t do much physical work, or anything else come to that, and the tropical climate. I mostly don’t have lunch, which worries Gaun who isn’t happy unless I am eating something. “Are you hungry?” will be asked, I will say “no” and then a plate of fresh sweet papaya or mango in season will appear with a yogurt or homemade ice cream. The wok is fired up and crumbed prawns or chicken will arrive usually in quantities to feed a small family. The decision to go with a simple breakfast rather than something cooked is met with a look of disappointment! All in all it is the one area I feel that I let Gaun down 🙂 She should have married a big eater. Sorry Gaun.
A papaya salad is essential eating for an Isaan person and will be quickly whipped up at any time. Super hot, sour and nothing like the takeaway menu options you buy back ‘home’.
Chillies. Added in some form to most Isaan meals. Your partner will even enjoy green, sour, crunchy mangoes dipped in brown sugar and dried chillies, which may not be how you expected your mangos to arrive at the table!
If, as is most likely, your partner comes from a rural Isaan background you might be surprised at their interest in foraging for food or pointing out the eating potential of the oddest things when driving in the countryside. I guess coming from my background of relative affluence where a meal on the table was never in doubt it is hard to imagine living a life where the provision of food was not just a question of dropping into a supermarket. The historical background of Isaan is generally one of a poor rural population with the next meal being whatever is growing in the fields or the roadside. It is why the foraging state of mind still exists here even today and you’ll see motorbikes pulled over on the side of the road with a fishing line dropped into the local rice field water supply or something being picked from a tree.
You or I would stop in the countryside and look around at the scenery and just see vegetation. Gaun will won’t see the view but point out a whole meal growing around her. It is a natural built-in aspect to her and many other Thais.
Additions to the dinner table for free. This lady is picking leaves that will be either eaten raw, usually sour or bitter, or added to a cooking pot for extra flavour. This photo was taken on the roadside close to our house in the village.
In season the countryside at night is alive with small lights as locals wear miner’s helmets to search for mushrooms. Roadside stalls and markets are full of these amazing coloured mushrooms, the like of which you won’t have seen back ‘home’ in your boring supermarket.
Gaun net fishing for dinner in the family farm pond. Happy she is getting something for free!
I make fun about everything moving or growing being eaten but I am guessing that this once again has a basis in the past where a field rat, pond snails, ants and lizards all looked pretty attractive as additions to the cooking pot. Rice is of course absolutely essential to all meals here. “Kin Khaw” is the call to a meal and it literally means come and “eat rice”. Gaun firmly believes that if she doesn’t have a decent intake of rice, especially sticky rice, which is an Isaan staple food, than she will get ill. The rice requirement no matter what the situation will be applied to our western meals too you will find. I might have made a cottage pie or any other meal with some potatoes involved and Gaun will ask if I want rice with that! “No Gaun. I have potato” “Yes, but not rice” is the reply. You can’t fight it so like everything just relax and go with the flow, without rice in this case 🙂
Rice growing on the family farm. This rice isn’t sold. It is grown purely for family consumption. I have only ever bought rice during the three months we lived in Chiang Rai, in my early days. Since then we have been supplied for free with family rice.
Just on the subject of food I built a large pantry in our new home, which after over three years of living there is now filled with all the extras I consider essential to cooking; sauces, spices and tins and packets of stuff. Gaun like all Thais doesn’t bother with these sort of flavour accessories when it comes to cooking. Everyday Thai food is all about super fresh ingredients and very simple tastes. It is a clean, uncomplicated cooking style – largely wok based of course, although there is a lot of soups and raw vegetables consumed too. Gaun’s entire range of cooking ingredients fits into a small pull-out drawer in our kitchen!
Gaun’s older sister Yurt, cooking up a massaman curry for me, which is totally non-Isaan. Don’t expect western Thai takeaway style food if you come to Isaan. Thai dishes are almost impossible to find outside the bigger urban centres.
Finally on this topic, you will find your Thai partner comes into one of three categories where it comes to their consumption of western food – (1) They won’t touch it (2) They will try a spoonful just to please you or select some dishes they enjoy, although it will never match up to Thai/Isaan food of course, or (3) they can eat Thai or (most) western with the normal likes and dislikes. Gaun falls into category (3) and is pretty relaxed about trying new tastes. She eats noodles but won’t touch spaghetti, while Peng, my stepdaughter, will eat both. Gaun enjoys roasts, lamb shanks, steaks and things like mashed potatoes. She can use a knife and fork, which a lot of Thais can’t. I also find that she has a unique view of western tastes, which even after five years of living with her has me shaking my head sometimes. Just recently she had six pieces of toast with mayonnaise and raspberry jam, which she described as a sweet and sour combination 🙂 You may find equally odd combinations being withdrawn from your fridge by your partner!
HINT: If you are living with a Thai be prepared to have a lot of life revolve around food. You can’t separate the two.
Family
Another area that may catch you out is how obsessed a Thai person will be to their family. This is one of THE big issues online so I thought it was worth a separate heading.
A Thai person’s relationship with family is perhaps more complex and stronger than the connections a westerner may have to their wider family group, although all family relationships tend to be complicated. It is sometimes written that Thais put family ahead of their husband and in many cases that may well be true. If you want to continue your relationship I suggest you never give your partner an ultimatum stating “It’s either me or your family” You might not get the response you were expecting or hoping for 🙂
The influence of family in your partner’s life is an aspect you do need to very much consider if you are intending your relationship to be long term. You can not separate them from the family or expect their loyalty to fade in time as they become consumed by the power of your obvious charms. If the ‘living together’ scenario involves moving to your partner’s village/town, and it often does, and setting up home there then DO give your assessment of her family and their general attitude towards you equal weight to your ‘living with this person long time’ assessment because you may be surprised at how involved family becomes in your everyday life. If you strongly feel that the family will cause problems between you and your partner then do everything possible NOT to live nearby. You may as well sort this out early in the relationship because it won’t go away and may become an increasing point of conflict as time goes long. There are many ex-farang houses sitting in Isaan that I am sure now have new owners, in particular the ex-girlfriends of farangs, because of family problems where the expat has fled to the south or beyond. I know of one local expat who actually bulldozed his house rather than leave it to his Isaan girlfriend! True.
Just to give you a taste of the strength of family ties. Gaun has a (now) 18 year old daughter called Peng. When Peng was younger and Gaun was away working in the South of the country for three years and only coming home a couple of times a year, responsibility for looking after Peng passed to Yuan, Gaun’s younger sister and the family here in Si Bun Ruang.
Gaun and Peng. They are best mates as well as being mum and daughter.
When I came onto the scene and after a visit to the family home driving back to Chiang Mai, our home base at the time, I asked Gaun whether she was sad to be leaving Peng. “No” was the answer “Why I be sad? Peng with family”. This isn’t unusual in any way. There are many, many situations in the village where children are being raised by members of the extended family while their parents are earning an income elsewhere, which surprisingly often involves overseas places like Korea, Malaysia, Japan, Taiwan, some European countries and a few Arab ones.
In Australia and probably other places there is an increased demand on grandparents to become involved yet again in the raising of children due to the financial pressures on their parents. However, this is mostly a part-time after school type of scenario. If children were left semi-permanently in their care as they are in Thailand, it would be seen as abandonment and no doubt require counselling in later life! Thais seem to have a much broader acceptance of the community aspect raising of children. Family and parents are interchangeable concepts.
This little guy is being looked after by his grandmother while the daughter and son-in-law are working permanently in Bangkok. Grandma lives across the road from our new house.
The first photo above is over three years old now and we have improved our entranceway. The little guy across the street still likes to come and try to visit though often chased by his grandma. Our monthly drinking water is being delivered here.
My point is that the broader family group is seen as an extension of the individual rather than the alternative in western society where individualism is given greater priority. When you ‘buy’ the Thai partner delight you need to be aware that she/he comes wrapped in a non-optional accessory pack called ‘family’.
Another aspect that has the potential to cause problems will be your partner’s belief that you will provide some degree of financial support to her family. In a country where there is a very small old age pension payment and low wages in general, those in the family group that have access to an income are expected to support the older generation financially, even if they aren’t living at home. Traditionally children are seen as the ‘superannuation pension’ by the parents in a country where income ends when you stop working. Large families such as Gaun’s, with seven kids, used to be the norm, not just to help work the farm but also on the principle that whatever job they had some money would flow back home.
As the latest addition to the family you may be seen as the jackpot of superannuation income and debt payment and all eyes will be on you. It is here that a sensible negotiated balance needs to be applied. You can take a western moral position that ‘I’m not paying freeloaders’, as many expats do, but my warning is that you WILL harm both your own standing in the family and more importantly also your girlfriend’s status. Her ability to attract a partner/husband that contributes to the family is central to her connection with and value to that group. You may have had a ‘win’ in your mind by closing the wallet but if that puts strain on your partner’s relationship with her family you may end up financially richer but girlfriend poorer in the longer term!
Let me be clear. I am not suggesting that you should pay off the family debts and buy new pickups for everyone. If that’s the demand that’s being put on you either by the family alone or by your girlfriend or both, then it is time to reassess the situation. I received a heartbreaking email from a reader not that long ago and I only include it because it can’t be traced to the sender and it may stand as a helpful warning to others:
Four months ago my Thai wife and I permanently separated, I got caught in a scam designed by my wife’s brother in law, to extract via my wife, all of my retirement superannuation.
My wife coerced me to send $40,000 to Thailand to pay off some of her debts, debts which she kept secret until after we were married. If I didn’t send the money each month she would threaten to leave me.
Thai relationships are the same as anywhere else. If you feel that access to your bank account is the main attraction to the relationship then pull out before it is too late. There is an abundant choice of single ladies available in Thailand and most are ‘normal’ people looking for a balance between financial security and a man they can spend comfortable time and share a future with. I am a living example of that philosophy as Gaun is the least demanding person financially and we have a very relaxed life together both as a couple and with our joint families.
A quick insight as to the importance of family financial support to give some context to what I have written so far on this subject. Gaun’s mama gets 800 THB a month or about A$32.00, which even in Thailand is a pretty limited income and not enough to live on. With no aged care facilities, or very limited if available, older members of the family are based at home. It is expected, although i am sure there are many exceptions as traditions break down, that the local family provide practical support on a day to day basis. Gaun’s mother is recovering from a minor stroke, which put her in hospital for a few days. All the immediate family took turns to keep her company, bringing extra food. Someone slept next to her bed every night. Members working elsewhere bussed in to see her.
Three generations – Gaun, Gaun’s mama and Peng.
Mama now recovering at home. The lady on the right is a neighbour. Her daughter, who is working in Bangkok, phoned to ask about mama. I think this is the first time mama has used a phone much to the amusement of all concerned. Yuan, Gauns’ younger sister and main carer, on the left.
Spot Duk Dik, the world’s scruffiest family dog, who is also keeping an eye on mama. The young girl is the granddaughter of the neighbour in the previous photo. She is the daughter of the lady who phoned mama from Bangkok, and is being raised by her grandma as are so many Isaan kids with parents working elsewhere. Mama looking very determined.
In a break with my desire for personal privacy I will share with you that I give 6,000 baht a month ($240) to Yuan and this was an amount Gaun asked I contribute very early in our relationship. This money is used to pay for all of the day to day expenses required by Gaun’s daughter Peng, which are controlled mostly by mama. I give Peng a monthly ‘fun’ allowance on top of this but that’s it. The family cover school fees, transport, phone costs, all clothes, medical, new reading glasses etc etc. I suspect there is money left over but that will be used by mama to help with her very minor expenses and if you think I am going to mess around with what is for me the perfect relationship, for a few baht you can think again. I write about the family demands on my money later so I will leave this aspect of it here.
Gaun and Peng.
Another big potential bump on the road to long term Thai/farang relationship success and where many farang lose it is when it comes to paying what’s called Sin Sod, or a dowry in our language. I had a farang tell me recently that there was NO WAY he was “buying” his wife to be! He did actually end up paying a sort of Sin Sod, because he paid off the now wife’s pickup loan and debt on her university degree. Sin Sod by another name. His initial reaction shows a complete lack of understanding of the Thai way of doing things and even if you disagree with the concept you should have an understanding of the real reason behind it, rather than apply the bar-hugger philosophy spouted from the beachside forums.
Traditionally Sin Sod was paid to the mother/father of the bride to recompense them for the loss of the ongoing financial support they lost once the daughter’s technical obligation passed from family to her new husband and his family on marriage. The loss of this potential or actual “superannuation income” was intended to be made up by payment of Sin Sod by the husband. Non-payment of Sin Sod on marriage is a loss of face for the whole family as the village will be asking how much Sin Sod has been paid. Not to pay is to publicly say that you don’t think your wife is worth anything, which isn’t a good way to start in your new married life especially if you’re resident in the village.
Nowadays, as I have written, you may well find that there is still an expectation you support parents and family to some extent married or not. You aren’t alone in that as it applies equally to Thai males. For example in my case I did pay Sin Sod but I also hand over that 6,000 baht a month payment, although in my case it is mostly for costs I would cover otherwise (Peng’s expenses) and not totally a super pension for mama. Get over it and pay up is my advice but up to you.
Yes, I paid Sin Sod and it was the best “investment” I have made in my life.
Leaving aside the financial side of families, which is only a small but important part of the package, and moving onto more general observations. Watching the play of relationships in Gaun’s family is like any other. Gaun is one of seven so there are a confusing number of relatives to remember in the early days. However, some are known and form part of the inner circle while there are others that are less involved. Brother number 3, Gaun numbers them not just me so I think she can’t keep track of them either, arrives with some of his family for Songkran. Gaun hardly speaks to him. With her younger sister Yuan contact was made every day by phone when we were living in Chiang Mai and we visit the farm most mornings for a coffee now that we live here.
Added 24 Aug 2019: WARNING: The stories of farang being ripped off by bad family members are true like this example told to me by a reader to beware:
Hello Tony thank you for you message on FB and your kind words and thoughts. I’m angry but I’m also a believer in Karma, “you reap what you sow”. Poor Xxx is devastated that her older brother could do this to her, she feels ashamed, foolish and anger. We’ve been married 13 years now so it’s not as if we are newbie’s to Thailand. She just wanted to help her desperate brother to assist him in building a new life, little did we suspect that all along it was an act in order to steal our lives. Many many relatives have been to visit us and express their condemnation of his ruthless actions. To be fair the bank have been very understanding, initially they wanted 803,000 Baht from us, this was the amount borrowed by him including interest for the full term of the loan. After taking my truck and selling it at auction they sent us an outstanding bill of 404,000 Baht, however they know the circumstances and very kindly knocked of the interest leaving us with an outstanding balance of 174,000 Baht. My plan was always to get back the lorry because it was in Xxx’s name if ever the worst came to the worst, sell it and clear any debt. So you can imagine our shock we two bailiffs came knocking on the door to take away my lovely pick up, rang him and asked him to return the lorry…….no it’s not yours it’s mine and you can’t have it back….two months prior he’d called to see Xxx, told her the tax and insurance were due but not to worry let him have the pink book (commercial vehicles have a pink registration book) and a signed copy of your ID card…….so unbeknown to her he did some with the photocopy ID and changed the pink book and the car into his own name, obviously not informing us and at the same time aware he wasn’t paying the loan and we would be liable. Then the first thing he did was take out a further loan for 500,000 against the lorry which was now in his name!! And then to add salt in the wounds he’s constantly posting pictures of him working in his lorry (although morally I still think of it as our lorry as my money paid for it) previously I’d lent the younger brother 560,000 Baht in an interest free loan and he repaid every penny. It’s almost like a perfect storm at the moment, this has happened to us, our income is down due to low Pound/high Baht and Immigration getting stricter. By posting on Facebook yesterday (and this has been weeks in the making so it wasn’t a random drunken decision) I want the world, as many of his friends are my friends to know exactly what he has done, yes and lose “face” risky but I don’t care after what he’s done to us and especially Xxx, also if there’s anyone person out there who takes note of our story and it helps them then job done. I do however have one ace up my sleeve something that only Xxx and I know about, when I first came to Thailand full-time the first investment I made was buying her her Mother’s house for 20,000 Baht, we have covertly had two offers both over 250,000 Baht……his mother is going to lose her home (we actually suspect she’s been feeding him information) and she will have to relocate the 100 Kms to live with him, we’ll use the money to pay of the debt thus ensuring our house will be passed on to our son. I also stopped paying her the 4000 Baht monthly allowance she used to receive from me. Sorry to bore you with such a long message and hey if you ever get round to writing a book about Thai life feel free to include our unfortunate experience. Thanks Tony…..Xxxx
I am pleased to report a happy conclusion to this terrible situation as reported:
Hello Tony, update from a family gathering last night…..it has being agreed that the outstanding debt will be paid in full to the bank next week by all the family (except us as we are deemed to have lost enough) clubbing together. Everyone present, with the exception of his mother) have agreed that he is expelled and is no longer considered part of the family, he’s hurt too many people with his lies and deceit over the years. I said to Xxx “does that mean he’ll be considered dead” her answer “No because in our culture the dead are held in high regard, respected and we think of them with great kindness……he does not deserve that respect and has simply ceased to exist”. Thought you’d appreciate an update, shows how a strong and good Isaan family come together, as you say it only takes one. Cheers Xxxx.
HINT: If you are getting into a serious relationship with a Thai person you definitely need to take the family into account as part of the package or regret it later. They are a strong influence over your new partner’s life and one you will either have to accept and work with or find some sort of compromise. I have read about farang who have banned the family from making contact for whatever reason, and you get bad associations here as everywhere, but the cost to the relationship may exact a high price.
The Thai Wild Girl
Western males have a very limited knowledge of the average Thai woman and what we do know is often based on girly images of Thailand holiday party spots like Pattaya and Patong in Phuket.
Fine in its place if that’s your thing but not surprisingly most Thai girls aren’t like this!
If you come to Thailand with the expectation that Thai women in general are anything like this image you will be in for a disappointment. An analogy is that if your impression of American women is based on Hooters then don’t be surprised to find that this is an aspect to life that isn’t the everyday 
You need to understand that like most Asian countries Thailand is still a very conservative society in a way we lost decades ago. Even with the girls pictured above if you met them outside of work you might be shocked to see how modestly they act and dress – not always of course.
You are looking at a country that, unless things have changed recently, a kiss between two Thai people on TV had yet to be seen! I wrote that three years ago and I suspect things may have loosened up since then but racy isn’t a word you’d use to describe the soapies on Thai TV! ‘Normal’ Thai women when they wear very short skirts, especially in the hot season, will in almost all cases have biking shorts underneath as per Catholic schoolgirls – the latter so I have been told Gaun refuses to go out in a dress unless she wears tights or has jean cutoffs underneath plus panties and she is a lot less conservative than some.
Gaun says this arrangement is for ‘saftey pussy’ so there you have the technical expression.
In Isaan you will come across many situation where a live music band has been hired to provide entertainment for some event. These almost always come with two or four dancing girls, some of whom are better at the moves than others. On first impression they may appear a bit risky in their outfits, exposing more skin than you’d think in conservative Isaan. Not so. In all situations I have seen, the girls are wearing a full skin coloured body suit, which must get very hot but retains modesty.
The costumes are usually involve more sequins than this but the bodysuit is always the same. This isn’t Pattaya, Patong or Nana Plaza!
Racy conservative.
If you are dating a non-bargirl don’t be surprised if a female chaperone joins you on the first few outings. A bit different from the Pattaya girl who may be more interested in the contents of your wallet than ensuring you keep your distance. A beach swim for ordinary Thais will often be done in full everyday clothing. Google “Thai girl at the beach” and you’ll find lots of photos, usually published by guys, of scantily clad Thai girls. The reality is most likely to be somewhat different
Tattoos are widely seen on girls once again in Pattaya, Patong and other farang hangouts. However, you’ll find that when these ladies travel home for holidays, and a lot of them come from Isaan, the long shirts and jeans go on and the tatts aren’t on public view. The whole dress sense will be toned down too. Short dresses and tank tops are around but not in the same numbers as you’ll see in the beach towns of the South.
HINT: I am not saying that you will end up with a staid and boring partner if you get together with a Thai partner, Gaun is a whole lot of fun, but you do need to be aware that there can be an element of the old fashion in your Thai girl.
The Thai Housewife
Now this may be a very individual observation but I will make it anyway. At the risk of upsetting female readers I have to admit that I have never been so well looked after since I moved out of the family home, and that was a while ago! Gaun has no mixed feelings about what role she plays in the relationship. She cooks, cleans, washes, irons and thoroughly spoils me.
Now I have spent many years as a bachelor and also had a couple of wives who were busy business people and I picked up on a lot of the housework, so it’s not that I’m not capable or willing. Gaun just takes on that role and expects to do it. She is horrified if I try to do anything in her “domain”.
Gaun in my sister’s kitchen when we visited Australia in 2014.
All of this done with huge good humour, impressive efficiency and part of an everyday process without any feeling that there is a ‘debt’ being accumulated in a mental ledger that needs to be repaid by me at some stage. Now both Gaun and I have the luxury of not having to work for a living, and I thank the taxpayers of Australia for my superannuation pension every day, so the dynamics might be different if we or she had jobs.
A slight design fault with our outside Thai kitchen. The kitchen inside is lower!
For the many people who here dropped in to see us, about 80 so far, and our beautiful house and tropical garden In Isaan and have met Gaun, you will have found a confident, impressively happy person who takes immense care to ensure you are well looked after. This is caring from a position of self-confidence and a unselfish desire to please. Gaun is like many of the impressive female characters in the village that have a real grounded presence and seem to have that confidence that can come from a life of successfully coping with a pretty demanding life. These are not weak women taking on an inferior position in life. Gaun’s mama is such an example. She lost her husband early in life, when Gaun was five years old, and was left with seven kids, sixteen buffalo and a farm to run. She never remarried.
Gaun’s mama. She expects Gaun to look after me but this isn’t required from a position of weakness. Does she look like a rollover?
HINT: If you do meet a Thai lady for a long term relationship you might find that you have a partner willing to take on the more traditional role of homemaker that we seemed to have largely lost in the West as a result of all sorts of role conflicts and stresses. You might also find yourself with a strong individual who doesn’t see herself as being in a lesser role just because she does the cooking!
Your Wallet
Now here is a topic where the full range of options are on the table and I have already covered some of them under the “Family” heading. For the readers of Thai relationship forums let me tell you that there is definitely an alternative to the money hungry wife stories you will see being posted by angry guys after they have been ripped off in some way. Once again I am not presenting an unrealistic alternative of all sunshine, light and honesty. I am sure however that there are a majority of relationships out there based on the everyday give and take that you’ll find in all such partnerships worldwide. As I said at the beginning, I am only trying to balance the image of Thai women that is portrayed in some forums.
In my case I find Gaun to be one of the most frugal people I have ever met. She has no interest in acquiring things or spending money for the sake of it. She was amazed and shocked at the amount of money I was paying on our house building project in 2014/15 – I had my moments too! I almost have to force her to buy new clothing and she will never buy label or anything outside her normal price range, which is usually under $10.00.
Before I came to Thailand for the first time in 2012 I read about Thai girls obsession with gold jewelry, both for its value and as a social statement. I remember ‘testing’ Gaun at one of the many gold stores outside a Tesco Lotus supermarket in Phuket very early on in our time together that holiday period. I went over to ‘look at’ what they had for sale, an invitation if ever there was for Gaun to join me to spend my money. She never moved from the shopping trolley outside the supermarket, which left me alone in the shop. She has never varied from that attitude in the time we have been together. In case you think I am a total tightwad since that time into our ‘real’ relationship gold has been added to Gaun’s small collection of jewelry but she rarely wears it and never day to day. Weddings and big Buddhist festivals are when it makes an appearance. Not all Thais are into making social statements by showing off an abundance of gold.
I thought I would add to this topic by broadening it to include the attitudes of your partner’s family to the addition of a farang into their lives, which expands on some words I wrote earlier. I have read so many variations to this discussion but in general the relationship between a farang and the extended Thai family seems to fall into three categories:
- They see you as an open wallet and will try (through your girlfriend – not directly with you) to have you pick up the tab for just about anything they can think of. I have an Australian friend locally and his wife’s family got him to spend 600,000 THB (about A$24,000) on her mother’s funeral. They contributed nothing. He also supports them in so many other ways. I also have an English friend here and his wife’s younger brother expected her to finance his drug and gambling habits (my friend put a stop to that). It can be a constant outpouring of funds if you let it. It doesn’t have to be this way.
- The middle ground is less intrusive financially but still an expectation that the farang will pick up the bill all the time. If you travel around Thailand you will often come across situations where you’ll see one farang and a pickup full of Thais especially where food is involved. Everyone gets involved, even people you don’t know and guess who pays. The stories of Thai family members cleaning out a farang’s fridge are pretty common too.
- The third option is the one I am so lucky to have with Gaun’s family. This is a hardworking group of the nicest people who have given me more than I could ever repay financially through their support and friendship. They have never asked me for money and accepted me from the the first time they met me. They seemed to take the attitude that if I was OK as far as Gaun was concerned then I was OK by them. I am as close to them as my real family.
I was motivated to write the following entry after two examples of how things CAN be on an occasion when I took my brother and sister-in-law for a day out visiting a stunning wat in the hills of Isaan that you can read about HERE.
Wat Pa Som Kaew.
On the way there we stopped at some roadside stalls selling mushrooms at 100 baht a bag. Yuan and Lud bought a bag and there was never any suggestion that I do it for them. Secondly after we had explored the wat we had lunch at a restaurant which was expensive by the standards of a couple of Isaan farmers. The bill came to 400 baht and Yuan and Lud had the money out for their share. Needless to say I paid but there was no expectation on the part of Gaun’s in-laws that I would. Now both of these examples may seem trivial but they reflect a mindset that is different from the one you are more likely to read about when researching this topic.
A few more illustrations just to further reinforce my point.
In 2017 I took Yuan and Lud, to Phuket for a holiday to give them a break from the neverending work they do on the family farm. I was planning to pay for everything as it was my suggestion we go and they have very little excess money. However, before we left Isaan they came over to our home and gave me 10,000 baht from the money they had just received from selling their sugar crop, to put towards the holiday. This represented a fair chunk of that money they received from a once a year bonus and they wouldn’t take no for an answer.
Now I made sure that this money was returned to them in time through improvements at the farm but what a generous gesture. You can read about the great time we had in Phuket where Yuan and Lud swam in the sea for the first time in two posts I published HERE and HERE.
On the beach at Coral Island, Phuket. Neither of my in-laws had ever seen the beach before
One more minor example – we recently had a lunch at our place with family and friends before a local village celebration. I was once again prepared to pay for everything and had arranged all the food. However, Yuan then went out and bought all the beer. A very different story from the money grabbing farang hunters we so often hear about.
A lively crowd even before we got going with the festival.
And another – because we have an electric gate on our property the guy who delivers the electricity bill can’t get in so he just goes to Gaun’s mama’s house around the corner and she pays for us. The last time I repaid her I gave her little extra just to round up the amount. The next day I got 23 baht back ($1.00) being the difference between the bill and what I had given her!
It was my stepdaughter’s 17th birthday last year and Peng had requested a guitar as her family present, a gift I was happy and expecting to provide money for as Gaun doesn’t have her own regular income. However, I was very surprised to find that Gaun had already given Peng the 3,000 baht she needed for the purchase taken from a very small amount Gaun had received as her share of the sugar crop last year.
AND finally as the ultimate illustration that not all Thai ladies are money grabbers let me finish with this story. We bought a Nissan NP300 Sportech pickup in March last year – pictured below.
My family modelling themselves and the car.
Normally a car purchase is registered in the Thai person’s name, because that’s the expectation. However during the discussions with the bank representative, all in Thai of course so I had no idea what was going on, Gaun pushed the point that because I had a 2/3rds equity the car should be in my name only, which is how it ended. So for all those skeptics out there here’s a situation where a Thai woman could have had a one million baht asset in their name but instead they didn’t take that easy option. The bank could have made the offer to put it in my name, Gaun could have not passed that onto me and I would be none the wiser. Am I lucky – certainly yes, but it isn’t just me. Read the comments from others and there are totally ‘normal’ trusting and successful relationships out there. Poor choices makes for a poor outcome in any society.
The core of my Thai family. Gaun, Peng, Yuan and Lud.
The reason for the high financial expectation Thais have of us is because many Thai families have a very superficial understanding of farang. The widespread fairy story illusion is that we are all fabulously wealthy and keen to throw our money around. When you first meet your potential new family with your potential new partner there can be an opposite illusion on your part that you need to make a good impression and pay for everything. There could be a bit of ego mixed in there too in that you can look like a big shot in the eyes of a rural Isaan family, when back home your status and income aren’t anything special. I would strongly suggest you go slowly and set the financial tone for the future. Like any group of people who are uneducated on a subject it is up to you to broaden your new family’s experience with a good dose of reality.
That doesn’t mean you have to become a total scrooge and refuse to pay for anything. It is a question of balance. A buffet feast for your arrival with some drinks is fine. Maybe taking over the repayments on the family pickup isn’t. If ten people want to join you on an outing fine but let them know that they will have to pay for food and drink or you will thrown in some baht and they pick up the rest. Once you are seen as easy pickings then the scene is set for the longer term accessibility to your bank account. You are the one in control. If you let it get out of control don’t whinge about it later. If you feel the need to cling to your Thai partner by ‘buying’ her family then I would suggest you are in for a rough ride longer term.
Gaun on the right with her sister and best friend Yuan. Thais dressed of a formal occasion are such a beautiful sight.
I have been incredibly fortunate with my Thai family as I keep saying and haven’t had to ‘re-educate’ them as they have never had that expectation. I can only give you hope through this blog and show you that there is an alternative to the sad stories we read in the forums of farang being taken for an expensive ride by their partners ably assisted by their extended family.
HINT: I don’t write these words to brag about how lucky I am. I am here to tell you that there will be all sorts of reactions from a Thai partner to the perceived wealth offered by a farang. Like any relationship it is up to you to use good sense in choosing who you want to spend extended time with and on what that relationship is based.
Togetherness
Another aspect that may have all sorts of variations. In my experience of relationships I have never had one that had such a close involvement between two people. It is a good thing I really enjoy being with Gaun because her company is a given on any activity outside the everyday. A walk to the local shop to buy a beer will come with the expectation that I will have a companion just in case I get lost! I can count on one hand the number of times I have taken a car trip without Gaun along.
Working at the farm with my best mate. Here we are at the end of the day sitting on our floating sala (hut) called Isaan Grace.
YoThais are extremely sociable and doing things alone is to be avoided at all times. Although this all sounds very claustrophobic in a Western relationship sense I have never found it to be a problem. It comes back to choosing a compatible partner. I totally enjoy Gaun’s company and she is a very easy person to be around. To balance things up I also have a lot of time on my own if I want to when I am at home. I have been writing this post on and off for a lot of the day and Gaun has been doing her own thing, mostly in the garden which she enjoys so much.
Part of our extensive tropical gardens all of which is Gaun’s hard work. It is difficult to be inside when this sits outside to be enjoyed.
HINT: Be prepared to see more of your Thai partner than you may be used to in a Western relationship. Pick wisely.
The Physical
Now this topic will be VERY general and brief. All I want to say, following on from the previous heading of “The Wild Thai Girl”, is that Thais are very reserved in all the public physical aspects we consider normal in a loving relationship. Touching, kissing and even holding hands are not generally acceptable displays of emotion in public. I was with a farang who was doing all of the above during a meal with my Thai family. They were far too polite to say anything but they weren’t comfortable with it and I could see that they just put it down to farang ignorance. Don’t let yourself fall into that category and disrespect the standards of our hosts in their country.
Gaun’s sister and brother in law. Happily married for 25 years and this is as close as it gets. A moment purely for the camera. I have never seen them like this in any other situation. Taken at Yuan’s birthday.
I don’t know what goes on behind closed doors and whether it all gets a lot more touchy feely then but suspect that it doesn’t.
HINT: Maybe keep your passion for when you close the front door. Thais will probably think better of you for it and you are a guest in their country after all.
Directions
I have read about farang reporting on the problems they have getting navigational directions from Thais. I think there is a lot of truth to this observation as a result of my experience with Gaun.
Firstly you need to discover and keep in mind the educational level of your Thai partner. You may discover that if you are with someone from a rural background, often from Isaan, then they may well have left school early to help out on the farm or other jobs to raise money and that reading and writing may not come easily. For example Gaun was never a good student and played up in school much preferring to have fun rather than learn. “Suban Vansutha” (Suban is Gaun’s real first name. Gaun is her nickname. Thais are usually known by the nickname never the real name) was evidently a regular outcry in Gaun’s classroom and the bamboo was used quite a bit to encourage her to focus!
Gaun’s dad died when she was five and her mum never remarried so with seven kids to look after she was probably relieved, as was Gaun’s teacher, to have sister number two (Yurt) find Gaun a position working in a supermarket for a Chinese family in Udon Thani at the age of twelve. This was a job she would hold for fourteen years. Out of interest she was paid 400 THB a month wages (A$16.00) in her first year. Yurt is still with the same Chinese family in Udon as a cook (she makes the best spring rolls). I included a photo of Yurt above, if you remember.
Gaun is very bright even though she is uneducated and now regrets that she didn’t listen more to her teacher. It’s a story we have all heard before. Mind you Gaun is passionate at learning English and has self-taught to a decent conversational level far above most Thais, even professional people.
Gaun on a friend’s boat on Hong Kong harbour.
When it came to navigating around Thailand I had an educated westerner’s expectation that Gaun could quickly glance at a street sign and let me know if it was the one I wanted. Sometimes she can but at other times she needs to work it out. The problem is compounded of course by the ad hoc nature of Thai signage, which even if in English can often be more confusing than helpful. Maps can be equally challenging for Gaun to read although she does understand how to use one.
Gaun at Singha Estate Chiang Rai. We found this place OK!
I don’t know if this is a general Thai thing but Gaun can also be reluctant to ask for directions. She is better here in Isaan on home territory than say Chiang Mai where there are all those strange Northern Thai types. Mind you having asked for directions the outcome can be equally uncertain. We had to upgrade Gaun’s phone at one time and she seemed to get very detailed instructions on how to find the main AIS office in Nong Bua Lamphu, complete with lots of arm waving and hand directions. When I asked where the shop was she told me it was ‘near Lake’. We did find it but only by looking!
To save stress on both of us I now do as much research as possible when aiming for a destination rather than rely on my wedded in-car navigator 🙂 I am sure don’t need to tell you to treat the maps on sites like Trip Advisor with suspicion until you have double checked the reality on Google maps and preferably used the street view to confirm you are going where you wanted.
That topic winds up this updated post that I have very much enjoyed rewriting. I am sure I have missed all sorts of things I could cover and it is a topic I revisit and will update from time to time. I hope I haven’t made it too self absorbed and there are some aspects in the post that you might relate to if already in a Thai relationship. If you are looking to establish one I would advise you to have a think about some of the hints I have shared see if they are relevant in your situation.
Hey Tony,
Another excellent post.
I could nearly copy you word for word if I was writing the same article. It would seem that you and I have found wonderful women to spend our lives with and I could not be happier.
Australia, like many countries in the rest of the world has moved forward at a staggering pace (we are only 200 + yrs old after all) that we put the $ and the ownership of ‘things’ before everything else… I think this is why people like us appreciate how our Wives love to take care of us, the same as my Mum did for my Dad.. Back in the day 🙂
We were lucky enough to get a 12 month Visa so my Wife came over to stay. It was not long before she stated that Australians work very hard to earn their money and that the cost of living is very high too. She understood that the average person visiting Thailand was not rich at all and worked hard for what they got. If that makes sense.
She loved our blue skies and after we had been back here a while I asked her what she remembered most…. How clean everything was…. I have to agree with her, I miss our blue skies and clean air…
As far as family go we visit a couple of times a year but village life is not for me. Her sister also lives with us now, but it is no big deal and my Wife enjoys having her around to talk to, they have a close bond.
I have helped the family on occasion, not because I was asked, but that I wanted to help a little. My darling is stingy as, but in a good way. She has worked in many different jobs (non bar girl type)and always amazes me how clever she is, although never finishing school. Self taught English and can hold a good conversation as long as ‘we’ don’t talk too fast !
My children, grandchildren, family friends and ex-wives love her !She has the ability to talk to complete strangers and can make you feel at home so easily. We have the best time together, and like you, we seldom do anything apart and is a first for me, but I love it.
We have never made an issue of each others phones or money…. I was upfront with her from the start about my financial position and that has laid the foundation for a wonderful life together. It was me that asked her to stop working and I gave her the equivalent so she could meet her family obligations…. There are times when she asks for a little extra, to help with Mama or sister etc, but it is always paid back.
Been together 4 yrs now and it just keeps getting better.As with most things in life and with forums, you only really hear about the bad things,good results don’t get much airplay. But with blogs like yours I am sure it gives people hope that they can have a relationship, but you have to be a bit flexible and not be set in your ways.
Of course I get frustrated at times, but that was no different than being back home, in fact I think it was worse there… 🙂
Thanks for your efforts in writing the blog, I still getting through it, but most enjoyable, and more so, relate-able 🙂
Thank you Shaughan.
What a pleasure to read your reply to this post. I always so enjoy hearing about other people’s experiences with their Thai partners. There are more good news stories out there than bad. It just is, as you say, we don’t hear about them as often as the disasters. I am coming up to six years with Gaun (five years married on the 14th) and if I had to edit the ‘Living with a Thai Woman’ post it would be to add more positives and seriously I can’t think of any negatives. Luck of the draw but find a ‘good’ Thai lady and what a delight the world becomes.
Countries like Australia have moved forward at an impressive economic rate but along the way we seem to have lost some of the essential elements of what makes for a balanced life. The enjoyment of things that don’t have a social or monetary tag and the connection with people – both family and in a broader community sense. Thailand still has elements of this but is losing it rapidly as it tries to catch up to our dysfunctional society.
I look forward to hearing more from you mate as you explore the blog.
Tony
Hi Tony and Gaun, beautifully written with great feel for respect and passion.
Thankyou from Nong, Far, Fern, and Fuk plus extended family and friends plus me!!
Much appreciated. I occasionally read through that post to see if anything has changed and it hasn’t. Gaun and her family are as described, I still don’t eat enough and money is never mentioned. Thank you very much for that response.
Tony
Ive just read this blog. Fabulous! Loved to hear your story. I am also married to a beautiful Thai lady and we have 2 beautiful children with a third on the way, I will continue to follow your blog. Great story,
Hi Matt.
It is always a pleasure to get a comment like yours. I sometimes struggle to keep the enthusiasm going to turn out stories so regularly (am having a break ATM) but then I get a boost like yours and it re-energises me!
Thanks very much.
Tony
Sawatdee khup, hi Tony, i have only recently found your blog, and have just read the post about living with a Thai (Isaan) lady.
How very accurate your observations, i sat here after work, now 2:25 in the morning chucking to myself, (“are you hungry?” no, but then a plate of fruit or something fried or a bowl of fresh somtam will arrive, no good arguing, go with the flow…My wife is from Yang Chum Noi near Sisaket about an hour or so from Ubon Ratchathani. we have known each other about 3 years and married almost 2 years. i also am a lucky man having found a loving, kind and wonderful wife that loves growing stuff, is a great cook (Thai and Isaan) a family that accepts me without money demands of any kind.All the family are Uni educated and teach or are on local council etc and also grow rice and sometimes cassava to make ends meet..we (Aisawanya and i) are based in Aus but hope to be able to be home at least 3 months a year and eventually build a small place on her land near the family home. I guess this ramble is to say thanks for a blog i can relate to in many ways, i am still learning and enjoy your insight into Isaan life and Isaan wife..maybe we can catch up sometime when i am home, i don’t think we are that far from you and Guan. Thanks Tony…..steve…
Hi Steve. I can’t tell you how pleased I am every time a comment like yours shows up. It is typical, and I don’t mean to downplay it, of so many healthy, enjoyable and just totally ‘normal’ relationships between Thai ladies, their families and a farang partner. The pleasure you share with Aisawanya and family shines through in your words and brings a smile to my face.
It would be great to say hello for real if you are ever in the area.
Very warm regards.
Tony
On a cold damp rainy November Sunday , oh the joys of England , your post was pleasant reading for an hour , I can relate to your story as my Thia girlfriend and her family are so true to the words you have written, one negative remark from a disgruntled westerner out ways all the many positives written on some forums , my girlfriend and her family are from Kantharalak in sisiket, which is a small rural town in the heart of Thialand , I,m a beach boy who loves to surf ,so it should very interesting to keep myself active and amused, or a lot of compromising , maybe get a canoe for the river , life is a wonderful journey , again I realy enjoyed your post , all the best ,Kevin
Hi Kevin.
Thanks for the thumbs up. I hope you can find a lifestyle that makes up for the loss of beach and sea. You are closer to water than we are in Nong Bua Lamphu but it’s not exactly a walk to the beach is it!
It is always a pleasure to hear from someone willing to jump in and try the new aspects of life Thailand that offers rather than try to hang onto the old, which only drives you crazy here.
I won’t tell you what the weather is like here because it will only depress you more 🙂
Let me know how you go and the very best wishes for move when it happens.
Tony
Hi Tony, how can I contact you I want to ask you about something but your email address isn’t published and I couldn’t find a contact form
Hi Tony,
I have been reading your blogs now for the last few months and want to compliment you on a great read.
I also have a Thai wife and look forward to retiring in a couple of years, we have land in BuriRam that we will be building on. Like you i have been lucky and married a wonderful Thai lady, she is here with me in Sydney, but we both cant wait until the day we can retire in Thailand and enjoy the good life.
Keep up the good work,
Kind Regards,
Steve,
I very much appreciate your comment Steve. Good to hear of another Thai/farang success story.
Good luck with your retirement plans. I couldn’t imagine living anywhere else and hope I never have to.
Cheers.
Tony
Hi Tony and Guan First of all my name is Ken yes I have a thai wife her name is samran I have Been watching and reading your blog on your house building and your gardens from the beginning with you two have done a fantastic job your gardens are absolutely perfect and beautiful. I have just finished reading – living with a thai woman I really like it will done credit to you will I am married to one her name is samran a lovely lady I could not be more happier we have a house in chondean over the hill from phetchaban I live and work in Australia perth I am a kiwi I see my wife once a year some times I get there twice a year it is hard but we manage she works like your wife does and I give her credit for that they are such lovely people she does all the in side work and I do all the outside work she does not like me doing the dishes tell me to go away she makes me a list for things to be fixed she has two brothers and one sister. Sister and brother I law live next door to us l get on so well with them they are such lovely people they would do anything for you l love the culture my wife looks after our land we have 32 Rai on it we growing 660 tr
trees for timber- 7 rice fields- 170 mango trees- 100 banana trees – 5 juryin trees- 5 coconut trees- 30 other trees I do not know the name so that keeps her very busy l am so proud of her she is a lovely mate partner and wife l could not ask for anything more. It will be 11 months before I see her which will be June. When I came back we would love to come and up and meet you both well going bye to you both and take care Ken and samran timmer
Hi Ken.
Great to hear from you with yet another farang/Thai success story. It would certainly test your commitment to each other only getting over twice a year. That can’t be easy for either side. Is retirement on the near horizon? I bet you can’t wait to get stuck into life here and spending more time on that wonderful sounding piece of land.
We would love to see you both if you get the time and are in our area. It would be a pleasure to show you around our slightly smaller piece of Thai paradise and sit down for a chat.
Keep in touch. If you want to write outside the blog you will find me on tonyinisaan@gmail.com
Cheers.
God bless you Tony – sincerely (or if you do not believe in a God like me then “I hope the universe bestows infinite blessings upon you 🙂 )
BTW I am in my 60s (A very important fact that almost all internet posts should insist on to give the post a similar context that exists when speaking face-to-face.)
To read such a well constructed and objective analysis of your personal experiences and observations in Thailand thrills me beyond belief. I have read so much biased and inarticulate rubbish whilst researching a possible retirement in Thailand that I had almost (but not quite) come to the conclusion that only ‘strange’ people decide to retire in Thailand. <– OK possible 'over the top' alert.
A question: You have found great happiness with your Thai wife and her family – clearly.
What about retirement to Thailand by an Australian couple?
You see what I am thinking is that because you are with a Thai lady you get automatic access to her Thai family connections and these have been incredibly rewarding for you. These experiences are woven into the fabric of your daily life. It's in your DNA so to speak.
Do you personally know of couples that have no Thai connections making a happy life in Thailand?
Thanks again for your insights.
Tom
Thank you for your positive comment Tom.
You are spot on in that there is an element of “strange” farang in Thailand but thank goodness my blog tends to attract the “normal” expats who on the whole enjoy the country and its people, while realistically recognising the downsides of living here. Nowhere is perfect and Thailand is no exception but certainly in my case I have found the balance is weighed on the positive.
Your question is an unusual one, in that in the vast majority of cases the standard relationship here is farang with Thai partner. I have heard from hundreds of people over the last five years and from memory only three (?) western women and I can’t recall a farang husband and wife combination via the blog. We did live next door to a French couple in Chiang Mai, where Gaun learnt to say “bon jour” but that’s about it 🙂 Congratulations on breaking with the norm! So in specific response to your query – no I don’t know of couples living here without a direct Thai connection.
Having said that I see no reason why you and your wife shouldn’t have a wonderful time here. I presume you have a strong Thai background and therefore some of what I say may be ho hum but I will say it anyway. Thais are on the whole remarkably friendly and they will be doubly pleased to meet a farang couple. The only major challenge I see, over a farang/Thai relationship, is communication. Gaun is my walking translator, and as a result I have been very lazy in learning Thai or Isaan (two different languages). If I didn’t have a Thai partner then I would have had to learn the language, or more of its basics anyway, and that wouldn’t have been a bad thing. Other than that you will face the same challenges as most single farang – the bureaucracy (more efficient than you read about), the driving, the food – all the normal changes involved in setting up in a totally new country and culture.
I have been remarkable lucky both with my wonderful wife Gaun but also, as part of an unexpected package deal, her beautiful family who took me in as one of their own from day one and have become like my own. It doesn’t always work like this and many farang report on the stresses caused by their inherited Thai family, which like everywhere is a luck of the draw outcome. So although not marrying into a Thai family might be a drawback if you came across one like mine, it could also be a blessing. You will find that if you are willing to get involved in the community and take a genuine interest in what’s happening around you, then you will have a degree of acceptance from locals and for most of the time a nod of recognition and a smile is enough to make you feel at home.
Your main challenge, and this applies to a farang couple or a single farang with Thai partner, is connecting with like minded farang – the “normal” crowd. There are an awful lot of what I call bar-huggers, and you find them everywhere. These are negative minded rejects from their home country that don’t necessarily represent the cream of their fellow citizens. Their major reasons for being here are cheap everything and girls that aren’t picky as long as they have some money. Your breadth of choice will depend where you base yourself. If in Chiang Mai or the coastal places it will be easier in that Chiang Mai has 30,000 expats while Si Bun Ruang maybe 20! I think living in a rural village without a Thai connection to the community would be a lot harder.
The blog has been my unexpected saviour because though it I get to correspond with people like yourself and you sound normal 🙂 but also we have had maybe seventy couples drop in to meet us at our home in Isaan over the past three years, and that gives me the opportunity to practice my grown-up English and be a little bit social. We have a few local friends discovered via the blog and regular “annual” visitors – people planning to retire here at some stage who make the yearly pilgrimage back to Isaan with their Thai partners. Changing location and starting fresh is not easy wherever you decide to do it but it might be more of a task here.
I am sure that if you see this move as an exciting new stage to your life and are open to all Thailand has to offer then you will be as happy here as anywhere else.
If you want my private email address to raise any specific questions “offline” then please let me know. If not then I wish you and your wife all the very best and nice to hear from you.
Tony
Hi Tony and Tom
Firstly, for those of you that come across Tony’s newsletter, I think it is one of the best most well balanced reports you can find. I always enjoy it immensely! Thank you and please keep it up.
To Tom and others, I would like to comment on my life in Chiang Mai (CM), with my lovely girlfriend Wipawee.
I am a 68 year young guy from Perth WA where I was a builder, and been coming here to CM, for about three years now. To put things in context, I have a physical problem, my left side is pretty stuffed, due to a largely un-diagnosed ‘brain’ problem, to the point where I cannot use my left hand much at all and wear a calliper on my left boot. (Why I mention this will become clear in a minute), but, I can see, talk, walk and have fun! Every day is a bonus.
On my first visit to CM for a month three years ago, I investigated a lot, for expats to do and what CM has to offer as a place for retirement, as well as the cost of living. The primary reason for choosing CM was there is a large expat community and the climate is pretty good, plus the fact you can have a comfortable life style here that you certainly couldn’t have in Aus on a pension. I joined the CM Expat Club and attended a few meetings. There seemed to be quite a few ‘farang’ married couples there. Sadly I found the general feeling was very cliquey; as this is not my style, I did not go frequently, about 4 times in three years I think.
During the visit, I was very fortunate to meet the lovely lady Wipawee and her beautiful daughter Kat. For the month they took me all round CM visiting many of the great places.
Just as an aside, Wipawee has survived breast cancer, it was her sheer determination to look after Kat, who she has brought up by herself that gave her the mental strength to overcome it. She is one hell of a lady.
Slowly our relationship developed, but all too soon it was time to leave, but promised to return after three months working on my house in the south of France preparing it for sale. It was also time for Kat to resume her studies in China.
I had met the close family and friends and most were very accepting of me, even though Wipawee is 23 years younger than me. We had built a great relationship on fun, respect and caring for each other. I was very fortunate to find a lady who would make sure she massaged my left arm and leg every night to try to ‘wake’ the muscles up, no matter how tired she was. She was given a lot of advice by her friends and older aunts as to how it should be done. Thrown in for good measure, she is a fantastic cook.
Yes, there is a perception among the Thais, that if you are ‘farang’ you have plenty of money. I let it be known up front I don’t. I am willing to help where I can, but I am not a cash cow, nor will I be taken advantage of. I have very simple principles that I have taught my 4 lovely Aussie kids, ‘help others where you can and always use please and thank you and show respect’. If there is no please or thank you, don’t expect anything to be done. A stubborn ‘old fart’ with a strict South African upbringing, maybe, but that’s how I choose to live!
I soon found that this was at odds with the Thai way, as there doesn’t seem to be the use of please much at all. The family thought I was a bit strange, because I always said please when asked if I wanted to eat something and thank you when it was given to me.
The Thai villages are a very close knit community and everyone wants to know everything about everything. Many of the females have asked Wipawee why a pretty young woman like her would be bothered with the ‘old farang’, who is not rich and has a stuffed up body. I thought her answer pretty well sums up our relationship. ‘Because he is kind and has a good heart! He has helped pay Kat’s fees, which is more than her father has done.’ Can he ‘do homework’? Their way of asking if I’m up for hanky panky. Oh yes! It keeps us young. As we live together, I am regarded as Wipawee’s husband even though we are not married. Maybe one day! I have a few friends who were very happy, got married, built a new house and things went south from there.
On my return, Wipawee and I got a condo near CM, airport, some 23 Km from her house in San Patong. Initially I had ideas of attending a few of the outside activities offered by the Expat Club, but found there was so much to be done around Wipawee’s house, I could spend my time better helping there. I set about installing piping for a new washing machine and changing the squat pan in the bathroom for a flushing toilet. There was not one murmur of thanks from Wipawee’s mother, who owns the house. It is as if it is expected of you. I let Wipawee know that this is not how I operate and she apologised for her mother. (Remember, a bit of effort required doing it with one hand).
Anyway, all too soon it was time to leave because of the one month visa plus extension was expiring again. I promised to return again. Why wouldn’t you when you have found simple happiness in a fun relationship with a woman that takes great care of you!
I returned three months later and in order to stay longer, applied for a six month student visa to learn to speak, read and write Thai. Bloody hell talk about a brain challenge! 44 consonants, 15 vowels that can be up to 28 in combination, appearing in front of, after, on top of or below the consonants. Basically five tones. Great care required here, the same word can mean a girl is beautiful, a slightly different tone, she is stupid!! No face slaps yet. When you get into complex grammar, the brain gets completely fried, disappearing vowels and an ending sound that can be one of 19 consonants! Add to that no spaces between words and not punctuation as we know it.
But it is all good fun and found a great language school in CM in Pantip Plaza. The teachers at Manna Language School were really great, exhibiting great patience with a group of struggling ‘farang’ and Chinese students. I think I was the oldest by at least 15 years! They did all the paperwork for the visa. One thing we need to watch, is the visa rules change often. There is no use in getting upset, because they have a system, you just have to suck it up.
When you arrive in a new country, I think you are obliged to learn about the culture and respect their values and ways. In a relationship, it can at times be difficult because of cultural clashes, but have never found anything insurmountable. Would I recommend the life here to anyone? Certainly, if you are as lucky as me, to find a dedicated partner, it can be very fulfilling and you’ll both be happy. Your happiness is a choice you make.
My apologies Tony, I am not meaning to impinge on your great newsletter, but thought I’d share my Thai experience with those that may be interested. Chop out what you wish.
Thank you so much for sharing your personal experiences of living with a Thai lady and settling into a new life here with extra challenges most of us don’t have to deal with. Nothing to chop out, as I am sure others will find your words as interesting as I did.
The value given to “kind and a good heart” is the saviour for many of us who aren’t in the flush of youth and certainly not rich. In this case it becomes a far more honest relationship than some of the alternatives, which for the Thai lady may have other priorities.
I hope that all continues smoothly for you and that Thailand, Wipawee and your family provide everything you want from life. Please keep in touch.
Kind regards.
Tony
Thanks for taking the time to reply Tony, much appreciated.
As I have said before, all credit to you and particularly Guan for all the hard work. The follow up pictures of the gardens are just great! Keep on keeping!
Cheers
Brian.
Really like your nlog Tony. I’ll be moving to Isaan as soon as my house sells,which I hope is soon.My wife and daughter are waiting for me there.I’ve been there 9 times in the last 3 years and even though there are things I’ll miss here,family,hunting and some fishing,my place is with my wife and daughter.I’ll be having our house built and have gotten some ideas from your pictures.My wife also loves flowers and I want our home to have a variety of fruit trees,herbs,veggies and flowers also,along with a pond to raise fish.Soon Thailand will be my home
Hi Ken.
Thanks for your comment. I hope that your house sells soon and you can make the move to Thailand and start to enjoy a new life over here with your family.
Keep in touch and let me know how you are going.
All the very best.
Tony
Wow Tony, what an amazing blog!
Discovered it by accident tonight and like a great book have not been able to put it down for the last 2 hours
Thank you for taking so much time in recent years to share your life and your experiences in Thailand
I have had many holidays in Thailand but never learned so much about the real Thailand until I read your blog
Keep up the great work!
Hi Howard.
It is comments like yours that keep me writing and sharing the little events that make up my life in rural Isaan. I am always so pleased when someone makes the effort to record their appreciation because of the several hundred a day who read stories on the blog the vast majority pass through without a trace. A sign of the times I guess but disappointing anyway.
I hope I can continue to hold your interest and if you ever have any questions please let me know.
Kind regards Tony
like your articles ,down to earth.(jamie pledge)
Thank you Tony for your time and effort to illustrate us about your wonderful experience happily married to a Thai lady. My respects to you wife Gaun, your daughter and family. In fact, I like Thai culture and faithfully, I will stay in Pukhet for a practical training in 2018 or no later than 2019. Then, I will continue my training probably in Singapore.
If you come to America on vacation or for any other reason, my home is your home.
I wish a beautiful time of unfolding miracles for you all,
Guillermo Rivera
San Antonio, Texas, U.S.A.
Thank you for such a positive message Guillermo. Likewise if you find yourself in our part of the world please drop in and say hello in person.
Very best regards.
Tony
Great stories and comments,I, myself am living in Sakeao area to a wonderful thai lady ,I found that being patient towards her family is crucial in understanding the way they( Thais) go about their daily life,in short I would have loved to have met my beloved wife 20 yrs ago,as for the thai language i found that if you are trying to speak with them learn important words ,you’ll get there,great fun trying,everyone has a ,all the best treat your ladies like princesses that they are ,you will live long and prosper
A great story in itself Terry. I too wish I had met my wife years ago but the culmination of our experiences bring us to this point and what an enjoyable point it is 🙂 All the very best to you both (and the family of course).
Tony
Hi Tony,
Just a quick update Nond and I married in March and now living in our house here in Thongtanee, Roi-Et. Thank you for passing on your experiences of Isaan life, marriage building which I have found invaluable if you are passing just give a heads up you are more than welcome!
Chris & Nond
Very happy news Chris. Congratulations.
I am always so pleased to hear that my ramblings in the blog have been helpful in some way. It is comments like yours that keep me actively writing.
We will be down your way at sometime as there is a temple HERE that I want to revisit to see progress. One of my favourite ones in Thailand. We will certainly give you a heads up when it happens.
Cheers. Tony
No problems Tony will put Chang on ice for you have a spare bed too should you wish to stayover.
An extra incentive. Cheers.
Hi Tony, we do come through Nong B L Phu towards the national parks to the west of you so would not be a problem dropping in for a short while sometime. It was a bit strange the older guy telling me about getting invites to family as he was about the 1st person I met at the block and I had to come 1/2 way round the world to meet someone who used to live 14 miles down the road from my old place, small world. I am also nothing special but made to feel special and I understand the “fragile”, its about right, and did draw a good laugh. Take care, best wishes to you and Gaun, Ivor
Hi Tony, I did mean to say we had 4 years in Bangkok ( as in here ). Ekkaphon will be back on the 14th June, for 5-6 months, hope we can meet up sometime in Nong Bua Lam Phu if your are in the area when we pass through, Cheers Ivor
left the bird website out as I can’t remember it all sometimes
Hi Tony, read quite a bit of your blogs and you seem to have been spot on with relationships. I am very happily attached to a great guy here in Phon Pisai. We have been attached for 12 years and, between my time in the Uk and at sea, have lived 4 years here and are on our first year in his home village. Been a challenge to get used to the extended families amount of help, which has been fantastic to the point of smothering. Very much like the Uk village life of the ’60’s and ’70’s and something that takes some getting used to after living alone & being a mercantile marine officer for 40+ years. Certainly in the 3rd group – The third option is the one I am so lucky to have with ….. . I got told many, many years ago, strangely by a much older guy at the 1st apartment block I stayed at “if you get an invite from a girl or guy to visit their family, grab it, its not given to everyone”. The reality of Isan and illusion of Bangkok couldn’t be more marked up here, especially dress code, public affection & way of living. My partner works half the year in London, for a Thai bank, the family help is somewhat overpowering at times when he isn’t here but it is so well meant. Perfectly understand the “food fixation”, I am diabetic, my condition has greatly improved here as the food is so fresh compared with “advanced” societies. I also get the “are you hungry” which should be “you are hungry” as shortly after something will appear. To counter this an exercise cycle & weights were put in the house before I arrived, forward thinking by Ekkaphon. We have also been around quite a lot of Thailand over the years, I photograph birds but I am branching out, Ekkaphon photographs himself and seems happy to continue haha. Don’t think we ever did “loud” public affection displays, but when together we are never far apart and know what the other is thinking & are content. Anyway enough ramblings, I will read more blogs as they come out and if you check my bird site and can identify any of the flowers ( or anything else ) please give me a bell, cheers Ivor
Hi Ivor. Sorry about the delay to approve and reply to your very informative comment. We lost the internet just before the Songkran shutdown and the tech didn’t get to us until today.
I am so pleased to hear of another long term relationship working out in Thailand. Interesting to hear of your experiences settling into a small village life and the natural support offered by a good quality Thai family. Like you I am sometimes a little overwhelmed by the level of care I receive. I am nothing special, just another guy trying to make the best of life, but they treat me like I am very fragile and need special attention (and sometimes maybe I do!)
We would enjoy to meet you both if you are ever our way so pleased keep in touch.
Very best regards. Tony
Hello Tony, I have enjoyed reading your blogs and have just bought your book. My friend Pin and I are planning on building a small home on her family land in Nonsuwan, Buriram Province. I realize how lucky I am to find Pin. She does not ask for money, automatically says no when I ask if she needs anything, also asks me several times a day if I am hungry, and is generally a nice, positive, and forgiving person. My questions for those naysayers has to be “how much do you put into your relationship? Do you take the time to listen? Do you let your partner know how much you value her? Do you spend your days taking?” After hearing the stories of the expats here in this district I can’t help but feel sorry for the financial and/or personal situations that drive a woman into the desperation needed to put up with the often uncaring and unfeeling partners they find themselves with. Okay, I’m off my soapbox now. Hope to meet you some day. Mike
Hi there Mike. Great to hear from you especially in the context of another successful farang/Thai relationship to balance up the negative stories. That blog post wasn’t trying to paint too rosy a picture on the subject and totally discounting the bad that obviously does happen for whatever reason, as in any relationship in any country. But as with most things in life there is usually an alternative scenario – the flip side – and it seems that you and I have found that. Long may it continue.
Thank you for buying the eBook. I hope you find it both an enjoyable read and that it provides you with a few insider tips that might be helpful. All the very best with your build. I haven’t been down south as far as Buriram yet but plan to at some stage maybe on the way to Cambodia. It would be good to meet up if that is a possibility.
If you have any building type questions send them through and I will help if I can.
Cheers Tony
Hello again Tony, I am working my way through your book. It is a slow process as I go from your book to the ideas in coolthaihouse to researching products and methods to tweaking my own plans. However, it is the process as well as the product right? If I get frustrated I step back and listen to Pin who tells me to keep calm and not let my thoughts become too heated. Good advice!
I’m sorry if this is covered in the book and I have not gotten to it but am wondering how much you use your outdoor Thai kitchen as opposed to your indoor Farang kitchen? Pin tells me at this point that she will probably not use my kitchen but would like hers screened against mosquitoes, gnats, and cats. Thanks for your feedback.
Mike
Hi Mike.
I can remember going through exactly the same process trying to make sure I wasn’t a total blank in the knowledge department once we got to building.
Funnily Gaun used the indoor kitchen 95% of the time or more. She only uses outdoor for the “spicier” Isaan dishes usually involving “fish dead long time”. I had read about the Thai reluctance to change old habits and was surprised at the eventual outcome. I had expected it to be a bit of a showpiece with just me using it from time to time but not so.
Gaun is very adaptable and cooks up things like spaghetti, mashed potato, French fries, hamburgers, steaks and other western delicacies designed to add inches to the waistline, which might explain her willingness to become more farang in her choice of kitchen. She will eat farang as well as Thai and Isaan, which is also not usual with a lot of Thais. Peng, her daughter, is becoming quite farant too! Several of Gaun’s family still will only use charcoal to cook and in the same situation I doubt that they would change as they are pretty fixed in how things are done. Not better or worse just different.
From a practical point of view inside is cooler, cleaner, safe from the waves of flying insects that suddenly arrive before a storm or at certain times of the year and generally a lot more comfortable. I think Gaun appreciates the logic of that ahead of following tradition.
In your case it will be interesting to see if Pin makes the conversion over time or sticks with a Thai kitchen with improvements. I will hear how you go come the time.
Cheers. Tony
Hi Tony,
Thanks for the insight. Pin has always expressed an interest in cooking Farang food for me but for now I eat whatever the family eats. She has three children and has been a widow for around six years so I am not really interested in increasing her workload. She farms, has a plant nursery, mama and papa, and the children. Now a Farang too!
She is very interested in trying new ways in all of her endeavors and the house is no different. We talk about passive ventilation, insulation, color of roofs, and the like and she loves it. Like Gaun, she will be my foreman and is interested in learning as much as possible before the build begins. A total joy to be around!
I wonder if it would be possible to visit you sometime in May? She has an old school friend in Udon Thani she would like to visit and we have been talking about renting a car for a few days to come to that area. It would be great to see your house but maybe the best for Pin and Gaun to meet and share notes. I understand that could be a real imposition so if it does not work then no problem!
Cheers, Mike
Your wife seems like such a pleasant and sweet woman. What a lucky man you are!
Wishing you all the happiness in the world with your family in Thailand
Thank you very much Rose. She is a delight as are my Thai family.
Much appreciated.
Tony
I’ve enjoyed reading your blog and all your responses. You seem to be a level-headed, non-opinionated and maybe even slightly reserved type of person, and I wonder if you think non-pushy Farang may gain a genuine response from Thai people – unlike the fabled fake fixed smile proffered to loud, wealth-flaunting Westerners? One is warned about the standard fake friendly response to Farang, but being quite a humble type myself, I really don’t detect this in the friendliness I encounter. I’m surprised not to see any annoyance when I tell people that I have a Thai girlfriend, to be honest – one would think that with so many of their womenfolk being purloined, it might grate. But I’d better not put forward my own dating experiences with a Thai woman slightly younger than myself, as I’ve given her the address of this website! But I do tease her about her sulkiness – which she admits. Is it true that Thai women may be more sulky than others, I wonder? Perhaps though it coincides with the depth of their affection – I get the impression that Thai women are on the whole more full of life, affectionate and faithful that some of their Western contemporaries. And as regards the modesty of most Thai women – who cares with all those beautiful tanned legs and arms on show because of the climate… I read somewhere in fact that darker-skinned women are seen as ugly by Thai people, which is very difficult to get one’s head around.
Thank you for your comment and the questions you raise. I don’t believe Thai people are much different from any other country in their response to foreigners. You will get the good and the bad and quite a few in-between. A lot of the attitude you may encounter will depend on the situation. Thai people working in whatever capacity in the bulk tourism business are perhaps more likely to be only showing you a professional smiley face – not always of course but the odds are higher. Having said that I have found that generally Thai people are more fun loving, friendly, open and certainly smiley than any other group of people I have met no matter where they are.
I live an everyday life in Isaan as you can tell from my blog and I feel that I encounter genuine friendliness and smiles, which is in response to the genuine enjoyment and pleasure I have in living here.
It is odd that Thais are generally OK with us farang taking some of their beautiful ladies off the market. I am not sure that in my own country of Australia we would be so relaxed in the same situation.
I certainly have never observed sulkiness in the ladies I have had close dealing with. My Isaan family are delightful and always engaged with life. My wife Gaun is the happiest person I have ever met and I wish I could bottle and sell whatever it is that makes her that way every day in the four years I have known her.
I think that you will find the positives you attribute only to Thai ladies happen in any society. Thai forums are filled with stories of failed relationships and that shows that there are plenty of women who don’t live up to those ideals. As I say in the post you are commenting on I believe that in some cases you may find that your Thai partner is more “traditional” in what we’d associate as a female role in times past. You will get the full range in reality but you may strike it lucky if that’s what is on your wish list.
The modesty is also dependent on the situation. As the cool season finishes in Isaan and the the short skirts and shorts appear again it only confirms that I have chosen to retire in the right place.
And finally yes, you are right. Thai people with dark skin, and that often applies to Isaan folk, are seen as “lesser” than the whiter skinned people in the south. Watch Thai soapie TV, read the magazines and you will rarely see a dark skinned person represented. Look at supermarket shelves with all their “whitening” creams and lotions. It is sickening especially as none of them work. It is a nasty piece of discrimination and a dark side, if you excuse the pun, to Thai society. Mind you many of our own societies aren’t too accepting of dark skin either!
Cheers Tony
Hi Tony,
Thanks for responding so quickly – always good to glean from others’ experiences, as it’s easy to get out of one’s depth due to cultural differences. My advice would be to be very patient, but also as you advise be willing to set (reasonable) boundaries and stick to them – chances are that you’ll gain more respect anyway by doing this.
The comment about Thai womenfolk in general being full of life was prompted in part by an experience in Bangkok last summer, while walking at twilight through torrential rain not far from Wat Phra Kaew. I saw vague movement in the big elephant fountain while waiting for a break in the traffic in order to cross. When I got nearer, what I saw was a middle aged woman – certainly not under 50 – turning round and around with her face upwards, revelling in the feel of the sheets of rain drumming on her face and drenched clothes whilst standing in the fountain. Smiling and jokey older women undertaking “menial” work such as collecting recyclable plastic bottles from litter bins, or sweeping the roads, also make me admire Thai women’s spirit greatly.
While flying into Thailand for the first time I talked to the man in the next seat, and it turned out that he also had a Thai partner whom he had met in a North of England cafe – she was separated and happened to be visiting the town for a while from London. It was he who told me authoritatively that “Thai women are a sulky lot”! Perhaps it’s divorcees that can be like this – just a sign of insecurety after bad experiences with neglectful former partners. A friend who used to live in Asia told me that “Thai women like gold”! Not many women don’t… But Thai women seem to be cast in these stereotypes more than any others – maybe it’s a semi compliment that they’re such a centre of attention!
I enjoyed your story of the lady in the fountain and rain. There is still a slightly childish aspect to some Thais in that they are perhaps better at expressing their feelings and immersing themselves in the moment than us westerners. We have got very good at living in our minds as we get older but at the expense of easily accessing the child spontaneity in us.
I have met many male westerners during my four years in Thailand and let me tell you that I would be sulky and probably just totally depressed if I had to live with half of them. A generalised statement but……….walk around the areas where the permanent expats congragate and it’s like visiting a funeral home. A more unsmiling and sad looking bunch would be hard to find. Start a conversation and the first thing out of their mouths is something bad about Thailand. I quickly add that the farang reading this blog are a very different bunch. If you read the comments you will see that there is generally an optimism and enjoyment of Thailand and her people that runs through as a theme.
I had to ask my wife to stop using the whitening cream, as the brown skin is one of the many reasons I’m so attracted to her anyway. Trying to be “american” with the white skin and such is just another way of trying to be something you’re not.I like the traditional thinking, although I’m still trying to convince my wif and her family that 99% of all people in the world aren’t rich and live paycheck to paycheck every month. You would think that being told a milliuon times would have it sink in. I’ll be moving to Isann as soon as my house here is sold, to be with my wife ,4 month old baby and my wife’s daughter from a previous relationship. I have been in the states for 3 months,missing them so much it kills me.The only things I will miss here are my daughters and their families and huntingand some types of fishing.Regarding the smiles,from what I’ve seen in the 6 previous trips there, most women and a large percentage of men all seem to smile my way, although I still get looks from some like I’m some alien, even though foreigners have been living there for many years now.
Absolutely agree Ken. No chance that they would work anyway but like you I just love having a mocha coloured wife 🙂 Isn’t it typical of life that we want to be suntanned and the people who have the skins we have want to be like us. Advertising is grateful for our silliness.
I do realise when writing in the blog about the attitude of my Thai family to my financial situation that there will be a whole range of other experiences from good to bad. I stopped the other day to watch a street festival when a man grabbed my arm, steered me into a shop and wanted me to buy him tobacco! Some farang have families that have exactly the same attitude. Needless to say I didn’t buy the tobacco. I wouldn’t if put in the same situation in Australia so why would I change my behaviour here?
Your comment about leaving kids back “home” when moving permanently to Thailand is the major downside readers write to me about. Modern communicates shrinks the distance in some ways but it will never replace actually being there.
Good luck with your move. I hope it brings you a rewarding new life and lots of smiles 🙂
Tony
Hi Tony,
Many thanks for your full and helpful response, and sorry for the delay acknowledging it. Had I posted a letter you would probably have received it sooner than this response over the net!
I did wonder, Tony, how the farangs from more ‘individualist’ societies (the UK, US etc)tend to adapt to the very different one in Thailand. It sounds great to have such warm and friendly people around you, but I imagine an adjustment is needed for those of us who are used to our ‘own space’ but don’t want to offend people who may assume that we are lonely! I guess that you find your own balance and grow into it with the people in your immediate circle.
Did you have any issues with the insects/mosquitoes and reptiles over there? Mind you, I don’t know what you were used to before you arrived. When I got to Greece the mosquitoes seemed to feast on my skin but I got better at covering up and using repellent, and I think I built up an immunity within a few months and the bites were fewer.
Thanks again for such an attractive blog.
Hi David.
No apologies required. It is always nice to hear back from someone whatever the timeframe. I have been slow to respond myself as we have been on holiday in Phuket with a couple of my in-laws and I am catching up with correspondence now that we have returned home.
You raise a good point with your question about the Thai desire to be make sure you are never alone and how that works if we are happiest living a more solitary existence. As with most things of course I can’t give you a definite answer to the situation you might find yourself if making Thailand home.
In my own situation I have no problems. I enjoy being sociable in bursts but not every day. Gaun is surprisingly self contained as well for a Thai and has no desire to let the village intrude into our space. Having said that I have never felt any pressure by locals to share our lives and the family are too busy and polite to spend time at our home unless invited. Yuan and Lud will sometimes pop in but it is only for a specific reason, not to socialise or kill time. The electric gate is a plus because its default is locked and we control who comes onto our land.
I do know that other farang have a far more challenging time in maintaining their privacy with stories of their Thai family raiding the fridge and everyone self-inviting themselves on any trip that may involve the farang paying for food and drink. I have a local friend who is far more socially open than I am and enjoys the flow of neighbours and family through his property so each to their own. I think that a lot of the access criteria is determined by the attitude and confidence of your Thai partner. If Gaun wanted a busy social life based around our home then it would be a lot harder to arrive at a balance that worked for us both. However as I have already stated this isn’t an issue. Gaun is also very open about speaking her mind and super protective of me. If she felt people were being too intrusive she would tell them to back off. She says that her loyalty is to her family and to me and the rest is an optional extra.
As I wrote in this post farang must take some of the blame for the outcome they find themselves in. If we feed the expectation by Thais that we are all rich and want to have the same lifestyle as Thais then everyone will work hard to make that a reality for us! I see no reason why we can’t set boundaries and educate the locals and family that there is a balance. The only people you will upset are those you don’t want anything to do with anyway.
Watch out for lonely farang too! They can be equally intrusive and are often looking for a drinking partner and the opportunity to whinge about how bad life is in Thailand.
Onto your second question. Australia is pretty generous with insects and biting things so Thailand isn’t too much of a shock. There are mosquitoes around but nothing too intrusive in our area. They are mainly active early morning and at dusk. Use spray. Other people elsewhere have reported a far more serious issue with mozzies so it must be a local situation. Make sure you have a house with insect screens on windows and doors. Coming from Australia where this is a standard I wouldn’t have it any other way but for Europeans it is less known. The screens are not just for mozzies. The small and large Geckos, flying insects of all types, scorpions, rats, mice and snakes are happy to share your space given the chance. I look at Thai house with the big double entry doors left wide open at night and wonder at the mentality. There are snakes around and some are dangerous but many are not unless you’re a frog. Mostly they just want to get out of your way. Some Isaan people eat snake so they are a hunted species.
I hope this ramble has helped. Let me know if you want more information or clarity on any aspect I have raised.
Cheers Tony
Hi Tony,
Thanks again for your informative response. I am enjoying the more recent comments here as a welcome counter-balance to the more vocal negative commentary elsewhere in the blogosphere. That, after all, it might be possible to encounter a thai woman-friend with other than mercenary motives is refreshing (:
I read with some dismay of the general failure of the skin-whitening products in Thailand. I wonder whether artificial tanning items fare similarly (: Perhaps manufacturing is not yet in the ascendant over there, and those with a background in industrial chemistry ought to be encouraged to apply…
With a smile from crisis-ridden Greece!
Hi David. Welcome back. I find it as refreshing as you to read so many positive comments and via the blog we have had dozens of farang with Thai partners come a visit us some of whom have been in a relationship for many, many years. There are no rules to the relationship business and you can find the best and the worst in a Patong bar or a corporate boardroom. Some common sense with a liberal dose of good luck will find you with the right partner for however long that lasts.
Many of the whitening products are not actually designed to whiten the skin – they just include the word “white” in the name to give that impression. I have a Citra body lotion in the bathroom and it says “Pearly White UV” on the front. The liquid inside is indeed a pearly white but it won’t effect the colour of skin and doesn’t directly make that claim. One of the reasons Thai people apply a lot of talcum powder to their faces is that for a brief period it does make them look whiter. Maybe there are some legitimate aids to a whiter skin but I am sure they would be temporary and topical only.
I read that Greece is yet again on the economic edge. I hope your assets are elsewhere.
Tony
Wow, I am really unhappy to read about the snakes! Scorpions do not make me feel warm and fuzzy either!
Nothing to be worried about Jim. There are both snakes and scorpions around but not in quantities to ruin your day! Many of the snakes are harmless unless you’re a frog and you just need to be careful when lifting old timber and rubbish for the scorpions. Most snakes just want to get out of your way. I come from Australia, which has the most deadly range of everything on land and in the ocean of any country so Thailand is a walk in the park. Seriously, I have heard of people from Europe who won’t go to Australia because of the danger 🙂 Too many dramatic documentaries. 22 million Australians seem to mostly survive and the same philosophy applies to Thailand. Relax and enjoy.
Hi Tony,
What a lovely heart-warming and measured blog. Thank you.
I am a English teacher of English. In Greece, currently, but drawn to Thailand and your region, in the north-east, in particular. Not for me the noise and bustle of, say, Bangkok (:
Perhaps you have commented somewhere on what tends to distinguish the isaan people/ area from others in Thailand. I’ve heard, for example, that they tend to be more independent (lots are self-employed) but I’m wary of the stereotypes!
Once again thanks for the quality of your offering.
Best wishes,
David
Hi David.
Thank you for such a positive comment about the blog content. I always hope that the enjoyment of my life here shines through my words and perhaps it does. The north east is certainly much more pure Thai with a strong Isaan element in things like language, food and music. I spent a year in Chiang Mai, where a lot of westerners retire to and it just wasn’t for me. I am not a big city fan, like yourself, and Chiang Mai is everything I hate about too many people and cars crammed into a small space. Far too many farang too.
Isaan people are very independent as being Isaan. I suspect they see themselves as Isaan first and Thai second. Most people in this region speak Isaan, which is basically Lao, and their food is NOTHING like Thai. The political protests we see from time to time here are between the Red Shirts, who are mainly people from Isaan and the far north – Chiang Mai etc v’s the Yellow Shirts, who originate more from Bangkok and that area.
Thai people in general are on the whole super friendly, with the normal exceptions you’ll find in any society. I find Isaan folk to be extremely involving, polite and fun loving in the majority. If you show an interest in their lives they will open their doors to you both literally and in a more general sense. My blog reflects the access I am able to obtain to everything that goes on in my local area, which keeps my life here interesting and involving. For a farang it is a far more isolated existence in this part of Thailand, especially id you choose a village life, so you need to be comfortable in yourself and make your own “fun”.
If you ever have any questions or further comments please let me know.
Thanks again.
Tony
Just read parts of your blog.I am now building a house with my wife and our 10 year old son in Udon Thani. My son was born here and lived here till he was 7 and then after myself and Ternjai were married in 2013 we moved to Ireland. My son loved Ireland and took to school there like a fish to water. But due to a family bereavement we decided to move back to Thailand in June. Like you say my wife’s family have been great and have never asked for 1 bhat from me. The land we are building our house on is the family’s old home and is next door to where her dad lives now (her mam has passed away) The land was given to us without any expectation of payment for it.Our son has settled back in easily and without any complaints about moving back after he settled in and loved Dublin so much.He has upped sticks twice in 3 years to move halfway across the world with not an ounce of complaint, that itself says a lot about Thai culture I think.He calls himself Thai-rish.I couldn’t be happier at the moment and have no regrets about moving here 12 years earlier than planned. All the moaners on forums who love to knock people who have found happiness here are not worth bothering about. Best of luck with everything and keep on smiling
Geezer.
Hi Geezer. What a great story with an ongoing happy ending!
Maybe we can meet up for a chat once you return to a normal life post-build. I am always so pleased to find another positive local farang.
Thank you for sharing and good luck with the build and your new life here.
Tony
Hi
Thanks for that information.
Regarding the language certainly for me it is a struggle, but for now I will continue to persevere.
I will be in CM for October and will once again attend language school for a short few hours most days of the week.
My plan at this stage of my life (and that plan might change) is to visit Thailand for 1-3 months each year over the next say 5years and then to perhaps live in Thailand for a longer periods.
Once again I must say that I have found your blog most interesting and I hope we can stay in touch.
All the best
Mark
Hi Tony
I have really enjoyed reading your insightful and honest, balanced blog.
I am 57, am living in Australia. I have visited Chiang Mai and spent 1 month attending a language school.
I do know that one month is “nothing” when it comes to learning a language. But it seems I made so little progress during that month that I wonder (despair) if 18months (for example) will be any better!!
I understand from your blog that you and Guan will converse in English but do you try Thai with other members of your family or just other Thai folk?
I wonder if you learned some Thai language just by immersion, or have tried to learn Thai consciously or by attending lessons.
Kind regards
Mark
Hi Mark. Great to hear from you.
I am sorry to let you down after such a glowing report about my blog but my skills in Thai are REALLY limited 🙂 I have met farang living with Thais where their partner pushed for them to learn Thai maybe to compensate for their own inability or disinterest in learning English. In my case Gaun is the opposite. She doesn’t want me to expand my abilities much beyond my current tourist Thai plus a bit for whatever reason. That gives me an out for really just being lazy of course. Gaun was super keen to learn English and still spends time studying her books. Because her English is pretty good now she acts as my interpreter and always has, which means I don’t have to stand on my own two feet. I try to pick up new words but because I don’t actually have the opportunity to use them often they tend to get lost in my increasingly ancient memory.
My other excuse for laziness is that we live in Isaan, which is the language spoken here. You probably already know but Isaan is Laotian and mostly completely different from formal Thai. Different dialects are spoken all over Thailand. Buriram incorporates a lot of Cambodian while there are variations in the north too – Chiang Mai/Rai and Nan. Gaun is fluent in both Thai and Isaan and swaps effortlessly between them. If I ask for the name of something she tells me the Thai and then the Isaan, which is a different word! I am not only not learning one language but not learning two!!!!!
I have friends that speak Thai so I am not saying that it isn’t possible of course. I believe that in some respects it is easy in that there aren’t as many words as English but that the tonal variations are a real pain and that’s before you get into the script!
I have hardly given you an inspirational path to follow Mark. I do believe that necessity improves us in many ways and that if you did immerse yourself in the language for a while you would make progress. Thais are generally kind and understanding and will do their best to work around your early attempts at the language. I so often find that they are delighted when one tries even a simple communication in their language that it provides an incentive to keep on.
Cheers Tony
Hi Tony — Wonderful to read all this (I read all the comments also). I have dated a lovely woman from Maha Sarakham for almost 5 years (I fly over for 5/6 weeks 2/3 times a year. I agree that so many of the negative stereotypes about these women are baloney. Most of the 30-60 year old Thai women I’ve met are feminine, genuinely sweet and nice, low key and not at all materialistic. This last visit things went South suddenly and I do not know why. This is because I have experienced what farang sometimes get and that is a contrived story (often generated to avoid hurting our feelings). The problem is that you are often left with a communications gap which keeps you from finding out what you have done wrong. And it has left me wondering if we can build a life together if this kind of thing is going to happen (She walked out in the middle of the night from a hotel in Chiang Mai). I was floored. She told me she was very sick. I knew that this wasn’t true. So, we are “on hold” now. !5,000 kilometers is a long way. But she is priceless.
Hi Bob.
Thank you for your comment. It is good to hear from another person who has a more balanced view about the majority of Thai women.
I am sorry to hear about the situation with your partner. It all sounds very odd and like you I wonder what the real reason is behind it. I do hope that you have a breakthrough and can continue with the relationship as your words indicate an ongoing commitment from your side. My very best wishes for your future together.
Tony
Tony
Came across your blog looking for health insurance advise and your Pacific Cross reference is exactly what i was looking for. i just read your article on living with a Thai wife.I agree 100% I married Kay 10 years ago in both Aust and Thailand and we lived in Australia until recently. We are also in a rural village 100k north west of Udon Thani. Built a farang house thai style 2 years ago but it’s only recently been occupied. Kay is living there now while i stay in Australia this year so i can get my pension early next. It’s taken a while, but now her family tell me how proud they are to have me as part of their family. i can resonate with all your experiences as mine and my responces are very much in line with yours. The biggest problem with many farang’s is their reluctance to fully understand or their desire to fully involve themselves in thai village culture. This is what i love the most about living there and can’t wait to be there full time from early next year.
i will keep an eye on your blog, it’s very interesting to get another farang’s view of living in Thailand
All the best
Phil Edel
Hi Phil.
Thank you for the comment. How good to hear of another success story. There are plenty out there I am sure but never shared to the extent of the disasters. I have met many delightful westerners from various nationalities through the blog and many of them, like yourself, are enjoying long term relationships with their Thai partners, mixing the two cultures in various combinations.
How wonderful you are on the verge of making the move to Isaan permanent. I can recommend a retirement career! Best time of my life. So good to hear you are enjoying and participating in the local culture. It would be such an isolated lifestyle for a westerner otherwise especially if situated in a village environment.
Let me know how you go and the very best of luck with your new life.
Tony
Will be selling my house here in the states and moving as soon as that happens to Isaan to live with my wife, whom I met last year in NE Isaan and married in September. Have been married before here and was willing to take another chance with a beautiful woman that I love more than anything. The change will take some time to get used to I know, but after living in the states for 59 years, I think a move to the country will do me good. I love her huge family and they love me also. I would do anything for this family that I could, and they will have a son in law they can rely on. Only problem is finding work, seeing that it’s about 5 years until retirement. One thing I will miss is hunting, but I’ll be taking trips back to the US to visit family anyway, so I’ll hunt when I return to visit. Fishing for certain species also, but there’s always a plane trip to somewhere if I get tired of big catfish and the like. By the way, we are expecting a child this December also, and even though I’m kinda old, I’m looking forward to having a child with this woman so much. I take good care of myself, and I’m in the shape of a solid 35 year old,so I’m hoping I will be around a long time to see our child grow up. And I hope to live a long life with my wife also.
Good to hear you have a future planned here in Thailand Ken. Another positive report on Thai ladies and their families to balance up all the negative stories. With your hunting I guess life is full of compromises and as long as you have more on the plus side of your life then you are a winner. It sounds as if life here will give you most of what you want and the rest can be made up in other ways.
Good luck with it all and thank you so much for sharing.
Tony
Hi Tony, really enjoyed your story, its great to hear your positive comments. I to (58y/o) have a Thai wife,(3 years now),& live in Nong so sae, not far from Lamplaimat, Buriram.I count my blessings every day to have this lovely lady,pretty much echo your comments, just wish more men with simalar story, would share it, to help balance all the negative stuff out there. Keep up the excellent work, cheers, Geoff.
Thanks very much Geoff. It is good to hear someone else has stuck it lucky. I know that we are in the majority but like with everything people are far quicker to report the negative than the good news. Gaun continues to be a delight and central to my enjoyment of Thailand.
Keep up the good work 🙂
Tony
Hello Tony, Great dedication you have here.
Im slightly different to you, im 32, based in the uk but work in thailand every month.
i met my girlfriend dare i say it in a bar in pattaya 8 months ago, ive worked here long enough and im almost fluent in thai to know whats what here, i can see the “bad girls” a mile off.
Ive read everything there is really and the whole “pattaya bar girl” stigma really is strong! ha
my girlfriend is from khon kaen and although works in a bar at night for drinks works in a restaurant through the day.
EVERYTHING you have said was helpful and many things ive seen first hand.
the million to 1 chance of working is slightly off putting but im a positive guy like yourself, “you get out what you put in” right? my girlfriend has never asked for anything apart from once a “a 4000bht loan” to which was paid back early and without me asking.
my plan is to take her to the uk as “a test” then move her there but i will give this 2 years to see how we get on.
thanks for the write up and id love to chat with you sometime.
Craig
Hi Craig.
Thanks for the comment. Many farang dismiss bargirls as some sort of lower class of human and it makes me mad. People deserve to be assessed by who they are not what they do. I spent a bit of time in bars in Phuket during my time there and met some really top bar girls and ladyboys. Gaun’s best friend is a ladyboy and she is just a lovely, warm and friendly person. There are obviously the ones around looking to rip you off but you just have to use your common sense and take things slowly to work out good from bad.
Living in Isaan many of the ladies here have or do spend time in places like the bars of Pattaya but come home to family and community just like any other worker. It is much more recognised and accepted here than it would be in our western society. AND of course not all the ladies play the field. There are plenty who just work the bars and not the customers. Lots of other businesses that way too.
I am pleased you could relate to some of the things I wrote about in the post. Your partner sounds as if she could be worth a chance. The money test is a good one. Many farang seem to think they have to “buy” their Thai girlfriend in an ongoing sense and the ladies are often happy to help out. It doesn’t have to be that way. In my case Gaun is the most money conscious person I know and still buys the same makeup and clothes that she always has. It is a hard job to actually get her to spend money for a special occasion.
A successful relationship is a miracle no matter what your partner’s nationality but I have found my Thai one to be particularly rewarding. Gaun has changed my life for the better.
Good to hear from you and I will send a copy of this to your mailbox so you have my personal email.
Cheers Tony
Tony,
I stumbled across your website about a year ago and was surprised at the amount of information you have compiled and communicated. I met my Thai wife in a similar unexpected way that you met Guan. I am an American and we are now living in the USA. We have a very good relationship and I have to say that she has been a Godsend for me. I make an effort every day to make our relationship stronger by trying to understand and embrace her as a Thai woman.
Cheers to you and your newfound happiness. Not much of anything better than being happy to the core.
Hi Roger. Good to have you reading the blog. Congratulations on your relationship. I think all nationalities have their own “flavour” and for me there is an element of fun and childlike enjoyment of even the simplest of things with a Thai lady. A variety of personalities obviously so I won;t be silly enough to make a generalisation but for me I have found being with Gaun the most uncomplicated and laughter filled time of my life. I hope you continue to develop your understanding of this lovely culture as reflected in your lady. Best regards. Tony
I will be getting married in Udon Thani next week. I can’t wait! Nim and I have been in a long distance relationship for 3 years now, and she is moving back with me to the US. I have met her family many times and they are such great people. I feel blessed.
Congratulations to you both Gary. I hope you have a fun wedding day. All the very best for your future together. Another good news Thai relationship story to counter the negatives one reads online sometimes. Thanks for the comment. Tony
Thank-you , Tony, for opening up about your relationship. It was a very uplifting read with great photos. I am so glad that I found your blog, as we have a lot in common and you are living the dream which I hope to be living in the future.
I have been with my Isaan wife for almost 12 years now (married for almost 9) and these have been the happiest years of my life. The points you make in this blog are exactly my experiences with our relationship. I nodded “yes” as I read each section of your blog – the family bonds and obligations, the village, food/meals, the companionship and the roles we have in the marriage, the close bond that can be developed between two people who love and respect each other…… I even had to laugh when you talked about traveling around and directions.
My wife (Lat) and I live in the USA, in a beautiful spot on Long Island in New York. The area where we live, believe it or not, is very rural with agriculture, fishing and tourism being the main income producers, but the expenses to live here are ridiculous. Unfortunately, I am not at an age yet where we can retire to Thailand, but we are in the planning stages…. which is why I am hooked on your blog. Your writings, photos and information are absolutely exactly what will help us transition more smoothly into a rural Isaan village way of life!
Thank-you again and for all your hard work and open sharing of information. If you are available next time we are in Isaan, we would be very happy to treat you and your beautiful wife to a nice dinner of your choice in Nong Bua Lamphu!
Hi Michael.
Thank you for your positive feedback on this post, which is one of my personal favourites. I am pleased but not surprised to get confirmation from a few readers that (a) there are successful relationships out there and (b) my insights are true to form and not just a one off applying to my lovely wife.
A real pleasure as well to hear that you are well ahead of me in the experience levels having lived 12 years together. These days that’s a record to celebrate.
Unfortunately I have little experience of the US but I did visit NY for three days in 2012 on the way to a five week retreat at a little place called Walden in Orange County, New York State. Your location on Long Island reads very different from what most of us would associate with the Big Apple! It sounds as if you have found yourself a little piece of solitude on the edge of one of the most dynamic cities in the world.
It would be a delight to meet you and Lat next time you are in the area so please keep us in mind.
Please keep in touch.
Tony and Gaun.
Tony,
Relationships! It does sound like your experienced enough to make any observation you desire, and all those you have put forward are all similar to our experiences. Firstly I lived with my Brother and his “Thai Wife” for 10 years. (Since they have separated after 14 years, but hay that’s a good innings in any culture these days) During this time I inadvertently learnt to eat Issan. In hind sight I had subliminally become Issan in some minor ways. It was a little over 6 Years ago now that I accompanied by Sister in-law back to her home town of Ban Na Di to meet her family. On my very first day in Issan, I meet my wife to be, Pijittra. We have been married now for more then 4 years. We are best friends. We live in Australia, we work together everyday in a high pressure environment and still we enjoy coming home together each day.
I have not spent a large amount of time on the ground in Thailand as you have but I have lived with a “Thai Women” for nearly half my life now. The grounding influence they have provided me over this time has been invaluable. I get out of bed every morning and the first thing I think to myself is “How lucky am I”
In saying all the above I am sure there is no greater and lessor values in a Thai Women then any other women from any other Nationality.
Life takes us on paths that can lead us to anywhere. It just so happens that yours currently has you situated Si Bun Reuang, Issan. Hope to see you there one day.
Cheers.
Enjoy the pleasant Temperature while you can.
Hi Jon. I am pleased to hear back from you and hear about your long term connection with Thailand. As I said in a reply to another comment to this post finding a partner that you enjoy sharing your life with is one of life’s greatest blessings. I still have days when I wonder “how did that happen?”. I hope it a feeling that never fades.
I would be a pleasure to meet up with you both if you ever make it our way.
Yes, the weather is almost perfect. Sunny warm mornings and not too hot during the day. The rice fields are turning brown and the harvesting has started. The sugar will be next unfortunately – a time of burn offs, black ash raining down on the house, smoky grey skies and huge ancient sugar trucks cluttering up the roads and regularly overturning. Not my favourite time of the year from that point of view.
Cheers Tony
I hope by now the sugarcane residue is being mulched & turned back into the soil….after all…that`s where it came from !…..the rice farm next door to where we just moved from in Doi Saket mulches all residue & gets 2 crops each season.
Wishing you the best, for your relationship to Last more than 5 years.
If you stay together more than 5 years, you will be one couple, out of a million.
Really.
Sincerely.
Good Luck!
Sound like the voice of experience speaking there Ron.
I would like to think that I can become a relationship millionaire but as we all know living with any partner in any country is a constantly changing and often challenging experience on both sides.
Gaun and I have been together in Thailand for two and a half years now and we are getting along better than ever and it started on a high. We have a built beautiful house together, we both love living in Isaan, Gaun’s family are extremely supportive and have never asked for money or raided my fridge! and we share a lot of common interests. I am also very lucky as Gaun is the most consistently happy person I have ever met and we have yet to argue about anything.
I know it all sounds a bit ideal and where’s the downside but that’s the way it is. With two failed marriages behind me I know what the path to divorce looks and feels like so I am not delusional in any way. I even get along very well with both my ex’s. One of them came to visit us in Chiang Mai with her husband last Christmas and they are back to spend Christmas with us in Isaan this year.
I think finding a long term partner is the most difficult thing to achieve in our lives. It is often hard to find someone to enjoy spending a weekend with let alone a few years or a lifetime. I will report back in another two and a half years and see if I can hit the marriage jackpot!
Cheers.
Tony
Hey Ron……you know it takes TWO to tango/hpoefully to the same rhythm.
Usually…a well tendered garden produces the best….neglect don`t work.
A happy wife is good odds for a happy life.
3 years hence so I hope you`re doing better now.
Many thanks for the time you have put into these web pages and sharing your experiences Tony… In many respects your experiences and thoughts are similar to mine (albeit I am in the south – Surat thani)… So good to see something about real expat life with real thai people…. And not the ‘Pattaya bar girl’ rants and rubbish bandied about on the Internet.
Have fun
John
John, it was a real pleasure to have your comment waiting for me this morning. I am happy to hear that it sounds you are also having a good experience of Thailand with a genuine Thai partner I hope. I have never been happier or so well looked after! I will try to stick to your advice to “have fun” and report back on my efforts on the blog.
Thanks again and cheers.
Tony
So much in the blog…. Hours of information and entertainment! I may have missed it but no mention of water conservation?…. In the hot dry south I collect rainwater (2×2000 litres) and shower grey water (1×1000 litres)…. For the garden. 🙂
Thanks John.
Being an Aussie I am very switched onto water supply unlike our English cousins! I had a water storage tank in Canberra at one time they were actually banned there – in I think the driest capital city in the world!).
After the wet season here we get almost nothing in the way of rain, or that’s been my experience over the last two years, which admittedly have both been drought years. The whole of this year we have have two days of rain and a few thunderstorms but nothing else. We need a lot of water as Gaun is back to watering the garden by hand, something she will do for the next six months. We would chew through water collected from the roof very quickly and have dry tanks until the next wet season.
A deep pond would be useful and the family have a couple on the farm to supplement the bore water they use to irrigate vegetables. Our land isn’t big enough to support a pond and being totally flat I’m not sure we’d have the run off to fill it.
The garden is watered using unfiltered water from the bore, which feeds into a 2,000 holding tank. I have an electronic float valve that allows the tank to almost empty before switching on the submersible pump, which refills the tank. I have the cost of running that pump but it isn’t a major expense. Do you get more regular rainfall in the South to make holding tanks work for you?
Cheers Tony
I have avoided sinking a bore to date (relying on intermittent government supply and tanker delivery)… Long story about all the farang having bores and thai have Wells… They believe the bores are lowering the water table and drying up the Wells… Maybe true or not. I generally live fairly ‘thai style’ so my water needs are modest… And try to plant southern native species or similar so not too much watering needed… For sure the tanks do not last the dry season… And plants sometimes die!!! When I despair of dead plants I’ll try and negotiate a deal to share a bore with a neighbour.
Everyone has differing needs and different solutions. 🙂
I have to say that I was naive about water and Thailand. I had an outsider’s impression that the place had an excess of water. It is the tourist image of vivid green rice paddies, lush tropical forest, big rivers and waterfalls. The reality is certainly here in the North East that we have six months of dry and once the rice and sugar is harvested the place has a mini Australian look. Dry, brown and dusty.
We couldn’t survive without a bore even with minimal garden watering. The moo baan system is based on a central bore with a tiny blue pipe distribution – 1/2 inch into homes. There is no pressure and the water dribbles into holding tanks or troughs to be scooped out manually for cooking or washing. This is topped up with rainwater for drinking while it lasts. The delivered water in the plastic bottles is pretty popular. The poor supply is pushing people to source their own water through bores. I don’t know what the longer effect on groundwater will be. Hopefully the rains will return next year and top the natural system up. I have yet to see a well in the village either historical or in use.
The rice harvest has failed again for the farmers without irrigation and the government has issued instructions that for those farmers who usually get two rice harvests a year they are not to plant the second crop this year due to a lack of water. Our bit of Isaan only gets one crop a year but it will be a blow to the farms that rely on a double crop income.
As you can see from the photos of our garden Gaun loves her flowers and plants. Thank goodness she has a passion for nature rather than gold jewelry! I think she’d wither up too if we couldn’t support the garden through regular watering. I am hoping that once everything gets more established, the plants are only six months old, we can cut back. Your strategy of trying to match plants with the climate is a wise one.
Just reading this re.water Tony & yes…the MOST important thing in the whole world is…CLEAN DRINKING WATER.
On a 8.5 acre farm I had on the Mid North Coast of NSW in OZ…..I had a dam like a lake & 3 smaller ones…AND…I had an ever flowing spring fed creek for one boundry….later on 3.5 acres just below Port Macquarie I had two good small dams plus a big rainwater tank….I built a big stainless steel composting toilet with compost worms & a Greywater Reedbed treatment tank/pond….I was the Hastings Council “Water Hero”for 2005 & won a few thousand $`s in prizes….when I get back to OZ (I`m on a building block now) i`m going to have fun Dowsing & put a bore in….build another Greywater treatment system & buy a Rainwater tank….I`m 80 in Sept.2018…but you`ve got to have something to do !
Tony,
Thank you I have really enjoyed reading your account of living in Thailand. I am in relationship wth a beautiful caring young Thai lady, I am 59 and she is 36. I have spent time with her family and friends and have never before been made more welcome. I am English but work and live in Bahrain. I am about to buy a Mango plantation and build a home in Wangthong in the district of Phitsanluk. I plan to retire there at the end of this year and marry Ancharee. I am sick of hearing negative stories of money grabbing Thai women and feel sorry for farangs who only sem to meet these type of women. Ancharee has never asked for money and has no interest in material possessions. I like you Tony am blessed with a very good privat pension and I look forward to a full and love filled life in Thailand. I thank you once again for sharing your experience and would like to communicate with you in private.
Sorry for the delay in getting back Martin. My internet has been off since Saturday and I am catching up at a local cafe. Thanks for your comment. It always gives me pleasure to hear of other farang who are experiencing the same positive relationship that I have with Gaun. I am sure there are more positive things happening than the negatives but we just don’t hear of them. People are always more inclined to complain then write about the happy times.
I will leave my reply at that and write to your private address.
Cheers Tony
What a great way you relate your story.
I have too am much the same as you you, and married 2 years now to a lovely Thai lady. We live in Pai and run a small resort.
Are you hungry??? 5555 I laughed so much, I get asked that at least 5 times each day! Your story is very similar to what I could say, and sure the real Thais are not found in the “hot”spots>
Regards and thank you for your story, if only more “farangs” took the time to really find out.
John from Melbourne.
Cheers John. I am so pleased to hear equally positive comments from you. There is a majority of wonderful Thai ladies out there and you’d never know reading the Thai Visa type forums. I am delighted to hear you have found a good one and aren’t hungry 🙂
Thank you for taking the time to write. I spent time in Chiang Rai and Chiang Mai but never made it to Pai. We now have an incentive to drop in, spend time at your resort and see your town. Your wife can feed my wife and everyone will be happy!
Thanks again. Tony
Dear Tony
As one of your x wives I am delighted to read your new topic blog. I am so happy for you, I smiled the whole way through reading it.
You deserve every spark of love and joy that comes to you.
I am delighted my friend. x
That must rate as one of the nicest comments ever made by an ex-wife to an ex-husband 🙂 Thank you so much Gina.
Gina, you have a good heart! Like Tony, you and all of us deserve happiness if we are also prepared to ‘give’
It certainly was an unusual comment from an ex-wife. We are still good mates and each of us enjoys a friendship with the others new partners.
Hey Gina…..just read (1/8/18) your message to Tony(14/4/15) & think you must be a good woman.
What IS…IS…& that`s life……I`m into my 3rd.marriage plus two long term de-factos.
My current & FINAL wjfe has all the qualities Guan has…I am totally blessed & couldn`t wish for more…..MY Darling is Chinese & can`t do enough for me…which being a Virgo for me is hard….`cause I`m pretty self reliant…..I reciprocate as much as possible.
It`s years since you sent the message so I hope YOU are also happy.
Hi Tony and Guan ,more please.:)..now I hope you will have more time to write about your life and adventures in Thailand with Guan and your “new” family.
I have thoroughly enjoyed following your house build and I look forward to all the new stories every week! Can’t wait for the formal “house Blessing” , plenty of spirits for the spirits !
I am visiting Chiang Rai in June for 2 weeks maybe we can catch up somewhere?
All the best and get that garden happening..with lots of before and after pics please 🙂 cheers
Linda
Hi there Linda. So god to hear you are still “out there” following the blog.
I appreciated your optimism in me finding weekly stories but I will do my best 🙂
Your comment has reminded me that I have been very slack and missed writing about the house blessing ceremony, which happened before we could move in. I will quickly update the blog in case I upset one of my most consistent readers!
Keep an eye out for the story on Songkran, the Thai New Year, which has just finished. It was a great couple of days.
Great to hear you are coming out and staying in Chiang Rai. One of my favourite areas in Thailand. Unfortunately we are a long way from there over in the North East otherwise it would have been fun to meet you.
I have lots of Chiang Rai posts as we lived there for 10 weeks, so make sure you have a search for them before you come.
Tony and Gaun.
Hi Tony, so impressed and happy for you finding your paradise with such a loving lady. I am 14 years in Thailand and make my living in the restaurant and bar business in Bkk. Amy my gf have been together 6 years and I couldn’t be luckier to have found her.
We have a condo in BKK, a house by the sea in Bang Saray – close enough, 2 hours to get to work 2-3 days per week. We are now building a home on the 26 rai of land we bought years ago near Amy’s family in Buriram. The house is about 500m from the family and so very private but close enough for a bike ride to visit her mom and cousins. It is really security for Amy future after Im gone as she is quite a bit younger than me. Like you, Amy and I are very private people and the family is very respectful of our space, but they are lovely people and will be my closest neighbors with no other farang in our village.
My question relates to communication with her family at weekend get togethers. Amy loves to cook with her mom and sisters and I’m happy to see her enjoy this time with her family. With Amy cooking and chatting with the girls, I have no one to help translate for me.
This often leaves me with the men drinking beer and having some laughs. The problem is my Thai is very rudimentary, I cannot keep up with conversations especially after lots of Leo’s – they are very loving people and I care a great deal for them (like you they are prosperous farmers and have never asked for any money.) BUT I feel lost when it comes to conversation with them, It soon gets frustrating and frankly boring to sit there and have no idea what anyone is saying – I tend to look interested, and chuckle when they do but cannot add much to the party. I usually make it through dinner and beers but call it an early evening to great relief.
Tony how do you handle these situations? I don’t want to pull Amy away from the joy of being with the girls, chatting and cooking and bonding with family. I have no idea how to fit in?
This is of particular concern as within the next 3 years we are planning to move to our Buriram home (semi) full-time – I’ve met some farang and play golf and enjoy chatting up the local expats but I’m no bar fly. I think the answer is learn to speak Thai (or better Khmer) which at 59 I have tried and not been able to memorize or retain much. And the Thais speak too fast in most cases for me to pick out the words I do understand.
So Tony would love to understand how you cope with this issue and join in the fun with your local relatives and village friends?
Many thanks and kindest regards,
Jeff
Hello Jeff.
Thank you for such a detailed and personal comment. It always gives me such pleasure to read about other farang that have hit the Thai jackpot with both a delightful partner and a family that is supportive and non-demanding.
I can very much relate to your question on fitting in socially with other Thais when you don’t speak the language. I have exactly the same problem and I am sorry to say that I can’t offer you a magic solution, as I haven’t discovered one! I might be a bit more “protected” from this situation than you currently are. Although we live 100 metres from the family home Gaun spends very little time there. Cooking is done here and the family don’t expect us to join in the everyday meals. The main family social contact tends to happen when we visit the farm most mornings for coffee and catch up with Yaun and Lud, Gaun’s younger sister and best mate plus her husband. There are more “formal” events for things like birthdays and I enjoy them, as you do, but as an observer only. My only consolation to not understanding what’s being said is that I suspect it is mostly pretty everyday stuff, and we might both get bored with the price of rice, what to plant next and who’s doing what to whom (well maybe that bit would be interesting!).
The only consolation I can offer is that when we were visiting family during the period we lived in Chiang Mai, we didn’t have our own base so were more involved on a social level. Gaun was obviously pleased to catch up on everything so the interaction between everyone was more intense. Since we have moved into our own place and are living here permanently the need to “socialise” has decreased as it is all done more informally just as it happens. This has taken the pressure off my involvement although I still enjoy the occasional evening meal when we join them at the family home or taking them out to an Isaan buffet. Maybe you will find your situation “relaxes” once you and Amy settle into a normal non-visiting lifestyle. Just a thought.
I do find living a village life throws me back on my own resources more than a city environment might do with more farang involvement. I have found that I have had to adapt to being comfortable with me (!) as I am my own best friend and companion if you see what I mean. Even with my relationship and the pleasure I get from my Isaan family (and my darling wife of course) it is a life of basically living on my own and entertaining myself. I think that is a real challenge to the rural lifestyle and the number of farang who flee the village for the southern entertainment havens are testament to the difficulties. However if you can find a comfortable balance and build in some escape time then, in my case anyway, I have found it to be wonderful and I wouldn’t swap for a city condo anywhere in the world.
We will be in Bangkok for visa reasons earlish next year and maybe we can arrange to sample your restaurant/bar set-up. As an irregular visitor to the city I always seem to end up choosing the wrong place to try 🙂
Cheers.
Tony.
Hi Tony,
Somehow I missed your initial response and saw the follow up to Tim.
Great insight as usual mate. Good news! The communication issue at family gatherings has improved dramatically. Here is how I’ve overcome to great extent the awkward feeling of not being able to actively participate in Thai conversations with the guys sitting around during family get togethers.
I am a football and Muay Thai boxing fanatic. So are all the guys in the family. We all played the sport and love the live matches. So we plan our get togethers around Buriram FC (or EPL) football matches!
With matches starting at 6pm it fits nicely with the girls grilling and making dinner. Football is our mutual joy and a solid connection – we all know the game and are loyal fans of our home town side. Our focus is on the match, we cheer and laugh and celebrate goals! Drink loads of Leo’s have a nice dinner during the match then when the match ends it’s been a fun 2 hours and time to head home!
We occasionally host the weekly dinners. But most times we watch at Amy’s moms home. So we can depart when the match is over and dinner is done.
I can’t tell you how much this has changed the dynamic of our weekly get togethers. It’s actually enjoyable, its always more fun to watch footy with mates that love the game.
Amy and I still work at our businesses part time in BKK. And live 80% of the time at our seaside home in Bang Saray. I don’t think I’m cut out for the rural life full time. But this sporting solution has proven to work like a charm during our visits to Buriram.
Tony all the best! Your insights are spot on and a good reality check for newbies and old timers alike.
Cheers,
Jeff
Hi Jeff.
I am so pleased to hear that a common point of interest has been found leading to a connection on the non-verbal level. I find the same with my enjoyment of the farm and the cycle of seasons and activities. No words required but because I take an interest I am seen as being part of everything and included accordingly.
Great to hear from you especially with such a positive outcome.
All the very best and Go BFC!
Hi Tony,
Thanks mate. Truthfully your input really helped. It’s nice to know we’re all in this together. Your insight into a using Amy as a bridge in communication was super helpful and it works!
I am well over the awakward stage now at family gatherings. and bring more confidence into my humble role in this wonderful family. Our common interest, “football” was an epiphany! I look forward to the next match with the lads along with some cold Leo’s!
Not sure this is correct. But I’m told there are 1000 words in any language that are used 90% of the time for basic communication. Makes sense and is less daunting than learning Thai sentence structure, reading and writing and the like. So this is the new project, I’m learning 3 words per day. It will take sometime and I’m making up flip cards to help – I’ll report back as to it’s effectiveness and my ability to put it in practice.
All the best to you and Guan. Your home and gardens are simply spectacular! You are clearly a terrific guy.
All the best,
Jeff
Jeff; I am about 1 hr from you when you settle in Buri Ram. I have been married 10 yrs, but still work abroad. I know what you mean about fitting in with the guys. I do as you said smile and nod but have found threw my wife they are glad I do hang with them and try to understand. I get back about every 4 months. My brother in law enjoys showing me Issan ways. It is a great way of life and yes it takes a great deal of patience. Me I am in it for the long haul. I am also 59 and plan on retiring there in the next couple of years. I think for me the to make it better is doing what I can to learn Thai I have the culture pretty much down. Best of luck to you and enjoy.
Hi Tim.
Thanks for your positive reply to Jeff. The blog tends to attract people like yourself who appreciate Thailand and its people, with a dose of reality about the challenges facing an expat in a totally new environment. It’s not always easy but the outcome is so rewarding if we just relax and let Thai life flow around us. The best five years of my life and counting.
Best regards.
Tony
Dear Tony
Again, very impressed with your blog about Thai(Isaan) women and family life.
I believe you have nailed the ‘perfect relationship’ that most normal Farang would love to have ie a loving and caring wife. I am very lucky to also find my partner who has similar values and thinking
Best regards
Terry
Hi Tony I have found your story very informative.at present I am in Roi Et (Thawat Buri District)I have just bought land in my girlfriends village to build a house there next year. like you I have felt overwhelmed by the community spirit which is sadly lacking in the UK and other parts of the world. I will have no regrets to giving up modern living and going back to the simple life.
I am pleased you found the post useful Nobby. We have lost so much in the west due to our endless striving for material things rather than focussing on the far more rewarding and important aspects of life such as relationships, both immediate and in a wider community sense. Thailand is changing and wanting to be more like us while we farang come here to be more like them!
Good luck with your build. If you haven’t found it yet there is a week by week record of my build in Isaan on the blog. Around 600 pages of information.
Cheers. Tony
Hi Tony
My Name is Gerard
And I have just started reading your blog and I am really enjoying it
I live in Melbourne I am 52 and a world traveler however I have never been to Thailand.
i have just Starting dating a lovely Thai Lady Who also lives In Melbourne Butbalso spend a lot of Time back in Thailand wher she has her business and Family.
I to have only ever heard the cliched stories of Thai Women which has made me approach
This relationship with extreme maybe unnecessary cauition.
This lady and is educated has fantastic English has property in the south Thailand and two properties in BKK
I was hoping to get your personal email address to ask you a lot of questions.
Because everything you are saying is what I am experiencing it is very although only very new.
I would like to chat to you help me understand more about her culture especially from and Aussie Thai level to help me educate myself to give this realationship its best possible chance
As I have never been to Thailand.
Thank You Tony
Gerard
I have already replied to you directly Gerard if you wanted to get in contact.
Tony
Hi Tony,
You have touched on one of the most fascinating subjects here. I don’t know where to start and I’ve grown cynical over the years. We all have different priorities in life but one thing for sure is we all want to be happy. Thais aren’t any different. Many Farang seek a fast short term holiday relationship. An escort, paid service to have clothes ironed, a travelling companion, a guide and with that gain some insight into Thai Culture. Many Thais will oblige this. These relationships indeed can blossom into something else.
As for a meaningful relationship these take time to grow. I’m speaking generally now. My advice is not to rush into anything. Take your time. Don’t build a house for a person you’ve only just met. (unless you’re super rich)It’s all about money. About contributing money and making everyone you know comfortable. Build Mum and Dad a house and fill it with furniture and cars. You’ll be loved and accepted. The more you fork out the more you’ll be loved. Sounds cynical? This is socially acceptable in Thailand. Many Thai boys , the ones without rich Parents have to save before they marry. Don’t expect to have a loving Thai Girlfriend unless you have financially contributed to her life in a big way. To put it bluntly if you’re a tightass it’s not going to work well for you. You must learn to pay your way along with your Partners expenses and Families. This will never end. It can be great tho 🙂 Well worth it. Just keep in mind your partners not using you as an ATM more so has realised she is giving herself to you and you must Pay. She is leading you on the most satisfyingly cultural journey of a lifetime. You’ll not only learn from her/him but also from the kids, the Mums, Dads, Grand Parents..on and on. It’s a great ride and worth every penny.
Dear Tony, loved your article. I am an Englishman who has also met a lovely woman from Issan. I wondered if you could give me an idea of what kind of income is realistic to live a reasonably decent life nowadays in Thailand?
Hello Alan. I am pleased you enjoyed the article and have found your own piece of happiness in Thailand.
That is such a hard question to answer because it obviously so relies on the sort of lifestyle you expect to live. I am happy to help out if I can and will write to you directly rather than deal with it in public.
Cheers. Tony
It’s nice to see you happy with Thai wife, i’ve seen a lot of failed relationships from Asian to other countries, especially Thai girls.
Thank you Claus. I am one of the lucky ones. Gaun is the easiest person to live with and after six years I think that any nasty surprises would have made an appeared by now! As you would have picked up from that post, her family are equally easy to get along with. Very supportive and money has never been mentioned. I have met over 100 farang and their Thai partners since starting the blog and a surprising number of them are in long term relationships.
Tony